<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:14 AM Christof Ressi <<a href="mailto:info@christofressi.com">info@christofressi.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p>@Dan<br>
</p><blockquote type="cite">As far as I recall, going between
abstraction to parent patch via inlet~/outlet~ introduces a
block delay, hence no error</blockquote></div></blockquote><div>Dan, correction-- that is the exact circumstance where I *am* getting the error. <br></div><div>So now I think you are beginning to see why I think it's unexpected,</div><div>especially because of additional potential delay of inlet~/outlet~.</div><br><div>Dan also wrote:</div><div>> As the error says, you shouldn't create a direct feedback loop with signal cords. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Let me try to explain again:</div><div><br></div><div><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,0)"><b>I have taken a WORKING CIRCUIT--</b></span></div><div><b>
</b><div>(a simple stereo delay circuit, with cris-cross L/R feedback <br></div><div>implemented with [delwrite~] + [vd~]) <br></div><div><b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,0)">-- which DOES NOT produce a "DSP Loop Error", </span><br></b></div><div><b>pulled a Null (straight-wire) Filter <br></b></div><div><b>(which had been installed in the feedback path)<br></b></div><div><b>and moved it externally to the abstraction</b></div><div><b>(up to the parent patch), via outlet~/inlet~,</b></div><div><b>which, if anything ADDS additional block delays, <br></b></div><div><b>yet this produces "DSP Loop Error". <br></b></div><div><b><br></b></div><div><b>Clearly (the way I see it) <br></b></div><div><b>the logic behind detecting "DSP Loop Error" condition<br></b></div><div><b>has a bug.</b></div><br><div><b>I believe this is a false error,</b></div><div><b>because as I have stated--</b></div><div><b>the circuit HAD been working!</b></div><div><b><br></b></div><div><b>All I did was add the potential for additional</b></div><div><b>blocks of delay on the feedback path. <br></b></div></div><div><br></div><div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>But you're using [r~] and [s~] which is not the same as direct
signal connections. The former can act like a short delay line.
Please read "3.audio.examples/G05.execution.order".</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Christof, Yes! Exactly!<br></div><div>Added delay should REDUCE the chance of a "DSP Loop Detected"!</div><div><br></div><div>Also, believe me, r~/s~ has nothing to do with it. <br></div><div>My original patch was extremely ugly, due to criss-crossed feedback.</div><div>I only implemented with r~/s~ to clean up the patch to share. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks everyone!</div><div>BH<br></div><div><br></div><div><br> <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><p></p>
<p>Christof<br>
</p>
<div>On 25.02.2020 11:42, Dan Wilcox wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
As far as I recall, going between abstraction to parent patch via
inlet~/outlet~ introduces a block delay, hence no error
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Third patch is like the second,
only the effect has been moved out of the abstraction,
and into the parent patch. ONLY HERE do I get the DSP
loop error. </div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
Signal loop in a single patch without abstractions = error. Pd
has no way to read and write to the same signal buffer in the
patch at the same time *without* some tiny delay.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><b style="font-family:sans-serif">The point is the last two patches have
(or should have) an identical graph! </b></div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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</div>
<div>At the lower level, they don't. What happens if you
put part of the path inside a subpath which uses inlet~/outlet~?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Feb 25, 2020, at 11:36 AM, William Huston
<<a href="mailto:williamahuston@gmail.com" target="_blank">williamahuston@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">First abstraction, simple
stereo delay: 2 delay lines, variable feedback
L->R, R->L.</div>
<div dir="auto"> This <b>works</b>,
no DSP loop error. <br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Second abstraction contains
an effect in the feedback path. (in my simple
example, it's just a null wire: In-L passes to
Out-L, etc). Again this <b>works</b>, no
DSP error. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Third patch is like the
second, only the effect has been moved out of the
abstraction, and into the parent patch. ONLY HERE do
I get the DSP loop error. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><b style="font-family:sans-serif">The point
is the last two patches have (or should have) an
identical graph! </b><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><b style="font-family:sans-serif"><br>
</b></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif">It really seems like a bug to
me. </font></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">I'll
upload a test patch a little later. </span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif">Thanks, </font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif">BH</font></div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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