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<p>
<blockquote type="cite">Also, everyone please stop the constant
FUD about forced upgrades.</blockquote>
+1</p>
<p><rant><br>
</p>
<p>I don't really see how Windows or macOS force anyone to upgrade
the OS. You can still use your favourite 20 year OS, just don't
expect to get security updates or run recent software.</p>
<p>Are *we* forcing people to upgrade to the latest Pd version
because we don't backport features and bugfixes to Pd 0.34?<br>
</p>
<p>Software improves and new software builds on top on that. That's
just how it works.<br>
</p>
<p>Now, backwards compatibility is a whole different story. Breaking
changes or feature removal might indeed force users to upgrade
their software. Actually, Windows and macOS differ a lot in this
regard. I kind of understand both sides, but I have my personal
preference ;-)<br>
</p>
<p></rant><br>
</p>
<p>Christof<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 29.05.2020 12:35, Dan Wilcox wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:AECEADE1-AAA6-483C-B009-D9AAEC224E2B@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="">Y'all: I fixed this months go, it's just not in the
current builds (but now in the current master):</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<a href="https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/838" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/838</a><br
class="">
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Someone sent an email to pd-dev about it, I fixed it, and
they tested the fix. If you want to test on Catalina, try the
"Pd-0.52-2-signed.zip" on <a
href="http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.51/</a></div>
<div><br class="">
</div>
<div>Also, everyone please stop the constant FUD about forced
upgrades. We get it, you use the OS you prefer and I will use
the one I prefer.</div>
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On May 29, 2020, at 11:41 AM, <a
href="mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">pd-list-request@lists.iem.at</a>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 11:34:21
+0200</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">From:
"hans w. koch" <</span><a
href="mailto:hansw.koch@gmail.com" style="font-family:
Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">hansw.koch@gmail.com</a><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">></span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">To:
Pd-List <</span><a href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at"
style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">></span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Subject:
Re: [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load
externals? +</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: pre; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"> </span><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Other
annoyances.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Message-ID:
<</span><a
href="mailto:2778DCC4-504E-4AFA-AFEC-93D3F6068F0C@gmail.com"
style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">2778DCC4-504E-4AFA-AFEC-93D3F6068F0C@gmail.com</a><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">></span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Content-Type:
text/plain;</span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: pre; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"> </span><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">charset=utf-8</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">(had
replied to this earlier, but to alexandre only, by
mistake.)</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">that
annoying behaviour is called notarization and should
protect the galaxy from evil bananas.</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">the
delay could be caused by the notarization process checking
against an internal database of good actors and in case
there is no entry trying to do so online.</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">i´ve
heard you can kill all this by turning off SIP (sytem
integrity protection), but i am on mojave, which is
slightly less annoying.</span><br style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">in
addittion, if some brave soul on cataline wants to check
if that assumption about notarization is true, there is
some info here:</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<a href="https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/117896"
style="font-family: Monaco; font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/117896</a><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">so the
test would be to measure with and without that stuff…but
thats certainly not a generally recommandable case.</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">best</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Monaco;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;
float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">hans</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;">--------</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;">Dan Wilcox</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;"><a href="http://twitter.com/danomatika" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">@danomatika</a></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;"><a href="http://danomatika.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">danomatika.com</a></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;"><a href="http://robotcowboy.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">robotcowboy.com</a></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="">
<br>
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