<div dir="ltr">Thank you Dan for the tips!<br><br>Right now I think the discussion of documentation is centralized in educational practice inside academic environment. I had contact with the Pd in this environment but now I see a lot of people having contact with Pd inside free workshops, which brought other ways to search for information.<div><br></div><div>An example is here in Brazil, I noticed that the English language has been a big obstacle in the tool's learning path. Even for teachers who teach classes to teenagers. So I have been thinking about ways to alleviate the difficulties, which inevitably involves supporting multiple languages in the documentation. There is a <a href="https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list//2016-02/113597.html ">discussion about this in the list</a>. </div><div><br></div><div>There are various insights about efforts to provide support to multi-language patches inside Pd, move the focus of objects reference to html files to be opened on browser and called from Pd patch. There are to <a href="https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list//2016-02/113613.html">references about Processing and OpenFrameworks docs</a> and a draft survey of possibilities to provide a platform that allows the inclusion of content tutorials regarding synthesis techniques and everything else.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Personally I believe we have a lot of work done using this information and the help patch models done in Pd-extended. Would be great if we can find this documented.</div><div><br></div><div>To point some examples of things already done in regard to better documentation:</div><div> - Porres' ELSE documentation and the Live Electronics Tutorial are good because of the care to register and create patches that are visually unified, that show a concern with good practices of patches creation.</div><div> - Recently I find <a href="http://www.cooperbaker.com/home/code/pd%20spectral%20toolkit/">Pd Spectral Toolkit Documentation</a> which implements a simple and functional navigation mode.<br></div><div> - Now we have <a href="http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/index.htm#s2">http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/index.htm#s2</a>, which is shipped with Pd which start to provide information in html, but without multi-language support and with confusing visualization. You can’t understand if it’s a tutorial or documentation by topic. In that way <a href="http://www.cooperbaker.com/home/code/pd%20spectral%20toolkit/">Pd Spectral Toolkit Documentation</a> was more successful.</div><div><br></div><div>I started to asking about in Pd patch repo, telegram Pd group, discord and Facebook, and there at this moment people sent:</div><div></div><div><div>- <a href="https://gridflow.ca/help/">https://gridflow.ca/help/</a> - which I see interesting the use of colors in the patch which is more apelative to the eyes. But to go in this way mapping the audience is required.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Another very blowing mind in my view, which amplify the scope of the problem in my point of view is the <a href="https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1320#issuecomment-847909602">mscotthouston post on github related issue</a>, he reach at github issue from a call I did in pd discord channel.</div><div><br></div><div>Please, disagree, propose and take a stand. This way, it will be possible to map a little of what the pd community needs in new documentation.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em ter., 25 de mai. de 2021 às 05:48, Dan Wilcox <<a href="mailto:danomatika@gmail.com">danomatika@gmail.com</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Does anyone have a link, etc to the pddoc project/external from Pd-extended? I feel a lot of this was already approached over 10 years ago but not ported over into Pd vanilla. It might be worth checking it out before starting from scratch.<br><div><br></div><div>Also, keep in mind that old habits may be hard to break so don't be surprised if enforcing "one pattern to rule them all" might become "whack-a-mole."</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On May 25, 2021, at 1:50 AM, <a href="mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at" target="_blank">pd-list-request@lists.iem.at</a> wrote:</div><br><div><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 20:49:37 -0300</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">From: Esteban Viveros <</span><a href="mailto:emviveros@gmail.com" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">emviveros@gmail.com</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">To: Pd-List <</span><a href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Subject: [PD] Patterns for Pd Documentation</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Message-ID:</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">    </span><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline"><</span><a href="mailto:CAJQqjJRsQWxirbgOhr3kTT2q9Qydf5t9kSOU6QRJ-mB3yiokfQ@mail.gmail.com" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">CAJQqjJRsQWxirbgOhr3kTT2q9Qydf5t9kSOU6QRJ-mB3yiokfQ@mail.gmail.com</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Hello list! I'm looking for beliefs, judgment, advice, and anything that</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">can contribute to better documentation of the entire world for pd users</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">only.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">I suggest explicit 2 points:</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">1. What is the audience that you believe will make use of the Pd</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">documentation? Things like, advanced english speakers, academics, the</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">gender, low/high earning power, if they are programmers, musicians, open</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">source people, nationality... whatever you can write in a few words.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">2. Issues you see in actual way to document the objects, suggestions to</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">improve documentation to meet your imagined pd user.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Educational experiences, examples of documentation patterns, opinions about</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">how things have been done so far are welcome! If you want to contribute</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">more in effort to improve Pd Docs Structure I have opened a issue in Pd</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">github: Pattern design for Pd Documentation</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline"><</span><a href="https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1320" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1320</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Thanks for all! :)</span></div></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><p></p><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-family:"times new roman","new york",times,serif"><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;background-color:transparent"> </span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Esteban Viveros</span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;background-color:transparent;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></span></div></span><div style="background-color:transparent"><font size="1" color="#0b5394"><font color="#0b5394"><a href="http://www.estebanviveros.com" target="_blank">www.estebanviveros.com</a></font></font></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><p></p></div></div></div></div>