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<p id="reply-intro">hi,<br />I can read your criticism, and agree it's not fully updated and needs care,<br />but no it's not a translation of the old En flossmanual, it was totaly writen from scratch with another approach ... more didactic / less tech ref in the structure<br /><br />I'm not in the position to contribute to the new english one in term of time (I'm still a non institutional freelancer intermitent new media artist not supported by any national/regional institutions nor by high trade crypto capitalism) and probably "expertise" (I'm too "generalist" to talk as an expert, nor developper of any proper published external/abstraction code neither, but more as experienced user with >15 years and diversity of usage).</p>
<p>But I could translate/port the new relevant content from an english manual that is uptodate elsewhere in this old/new french manual that is still mainly correct from a teaching pov (I still use it with success with new persons)<br /><br />again your criticism while right concentrate on the technicalities (how to install this/that function) and do not look at the underlying structure of the teaching that is "how does pd works" ... "basically" ... which this french book tried to address first (then talks about technicalities)<br /><br />+ we really need other language resources, so I'll concentrate on maintaining this one in french (incl. your remarks), as this english centered technological culture is _really_ exluding many people totaly capable to handle such tools but not at ease with the english language used as "lingua franca" (what a twist of history! ;) )</p>
<p>best,</p>
<p>Olm-e<br /><br /><br />On 2021-11-22 18:13, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:</p>
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<div dir="ltr">Em seg., 22 de nov. de 2021 às 11:33, <<a href="mailto:ol@ogeem.be" rel="noreferrer">ol@ogeem.be</a>> escreveu:</div>
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<blockquote class="v1gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">hello,<br /><br />I would agree with this (good to have other sources)<br />and will add that the French version has been updated to the latest(ish) <br />state of the pd ecosystem</blockquote>
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<div>Hi, well, first, sorry to be harsh criticism I'll bring here, but I strongly disagree you have an updated version of the manual. I've been checking the changes. The french manual has a different introduction and talks about the latest vanilla and forks, but all of the remains is basically the same. For instance, the installation still considers 'Pd-extended' 0.39' => <a href="https://fr.flossmanuals.net/puredata/installation-sur-mac-os-x/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://fr.flossmanuals.net/puredata/installation-sur-mac-os-x/</a></div>
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<div>When talking about OSC, there's no mentioning of Pd's internals that can handle it. Not to mention that it is quite outdated in general when not mentioning now the quite old feature that is [clone]</div>
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<div>You don't explain how to use deken or even mention it. Pd's actual manual is not referred and it includes lots of important and current information on how to handle externals. When talking about libraries, you have information on pd-extended's [import] object and nothing about [declare]. Many of the external libraries you have on the manual simply do not show how you can install them in the first place. And GEM seem to have issues on macOS (I don't really know much about this) and is a bit outdated. There's nothing about new externals, like [ofelia], for instance...</div>
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<div>I can't read french, but what I see is that this is a variant of the english floss manual centered in pd-extended, but with a new small introduction that talks about vanilla and a couple of forks and with the pd-extended external list removed (which is something pretty nice it had!). I think this is a good example of parallel efforts that despite the advantages and good it brings (like being a great resource for french speakers) end up generating noise. We now have an official Manual that not many users are aware of. An english and abandoned FLOSS Manual that is actually centered in Pd-Extended and totally outdated, and a french version of the same manual that is not the same manual at all (but people will assume that it is the exact same thing but in french) and it sits somewhere between a pd-extended manual and an outdated Pd manual.</div>
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<div>It's ok if we want to go back and write a new FLOSS Manual, but please, let us do that then. Just keep this as the french version of the old FLOSS Manual (centered in Pd-extended) - in fatc I'm trying to rename it as a pd-extended manual.</div>
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<div>And if we start with a new english one, we can then think about translating it to other languages. And people who want to translate it to other languages should collaborate with the english one. If they're working on new things on a different language, they can also bring it to the original 'master' one in english to avoid noise.</div>
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<blockquote class="v1gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; padding-left: 1ex;">and will be updated when / where necessary <br />(I'll try to keep it up) to keep a current (french) ressource available <br />with a didactic introduction to concepts (and not just a technical <br />reference)</blockquote>
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<div>Well, I think this is still quite far from being updated, so it needed to be updated <strong>now</strong> in things I've pointed, but again, I can't read french and help more, and we could work instead ogether on a new english official version first, where more people can collaborate (including you) before we have it in other languages. <br /><br /></div>
<div>I don't know what you mean by "a didactic introduction to concepts (and not just a technical reference)". If you mean Pd's manual/documentation is just too technical and not didactic, we can discuss about improving on this matter. </div>
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<div>cheers</div>
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