<div dir="ltr">yeah, I'll just take the 'coords' message out and keep the rest<div><br></div><div>but it's not like it always needs map 0/1, does it?</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em qua., 1 de dez. de 2021 às 18:03, Christof Ressi <<a href="mailto:info@christofressi.com">info@christofressi.com</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>The problem with [coords( is that you also need to do [map 0,
map1( to force a redraw of the parent canvas. This means you would
have to document [map( as well.<br>
</p>
<p>I would say don't document it for now and instead let's hope that
we will *finally* get
<a href="https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/627" target="_blank">https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/627</a> (this PR is now
already 2 1/2 years old...)</p>
<p>Christof<br>
</p>
<div>On 01.12.2021 20:24, Alexandre Torres
Porres wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">sorry to insist, but this has been already
committed to my documentation branch and it's the only
big change that I really worry about. So let's settle this
before it's too late :)
<div><br>
</div>
<div>thanks</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em sáb., 27 de nov. de 2021 às
22:28, Alexandre Torres Porres <<a href="mailto:porres@gmail.com" target="_blank">porres@gmail.com</a>>
escreveu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I updated my file. It seems the only "tricky"
message is 'coords', right?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I put a warning about it. So, does it settle it?</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em sáb., 27 de nov. de
2021 às 22:01, Christof Ressi <<a href="mailto:info@christofressi.com" target="_blank">info@christofressi.com</a>>
escreveu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>I very much agree with your points.</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote type="cite">If we lump "user space" and
"internal" messaging together in an open manual, then
they should be clearly delineated with special placed
on emphasizing what things are more or less stable and
what things are not. Then the user can decide how they
want to proceed. </blockquote>
As you say, it's better to document all of it and at the
same time make it clear what is public and what is
private. And figure out how to deal with the large gray
area in between :-)
<p>Christof<br>
</p>
<div>On 28.11.2021 00:37, Dan Wilcox wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Howdy all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My feeling on this is:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Recognize that, despite using "private" or
"unstable" internal APIs, people have been
using/abusing them for years. (So far, I feel we
have been recognizing this by being careful not to
break things, more or less.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. We should document all internal messaging,
at least for the sake of developer documentation.
If we lump "user space" and "internal" messaging
together in an open manual, then they should be
clearly delineated with special placed on
emphasizing what things are more or less stable
and what things are not. Then the user can decide
how they want to proceed. I don't see a problem if
people want to play with the internals on their
own machine and crash Pd... that's half the fun
for such activities anyway (learning).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3. We should get a poll of which internal
messages are currently in use and consider which
of these could be moved into "user space" and/or
replaced by a better API. I believe this thread is
already providing a good list...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>4. Open a technical discussion on supporting
"dynamic patching" officially. It's clearly very
useful even if clunky through the current
workarounds. Even with [clone] there are still
many use cases...<br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Nov 28, 2021, at 12:25 AM, <a href="mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at" target="_blank">pd-list-request@lists.iem.at</a>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div> <span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Message:
1</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Date:
Sat, 27 Nov 2021 20:20:49 +0100</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">From:
Jean-Yves Gratius <</span><a href="mailto:jyg@gumo.fr" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">jyg@gumo.fr</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">To:<span> </span></span><a href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Subject:
Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd
and dynamic patching</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Message-ID:
<</span><a href="mailto:f41bab20-e831-3f04-52fb-ba273b1e0daf@gumo.fr" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">f41bab20-e831-3f04-52fb-ba273b1e0daf@gumo.fr</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="windows-1252";
Format="flowed"</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">On
27/11/2021 17:19,<span> </span></span><a href="mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">pd-list-request@lists.iem.at</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline"><span> </span>wrote:</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">ForwardedMessage.eml<br>
<br>
Subject:<br>
Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd
and dynamic patching<br>
From:<br>
Christof Ressi <<a href="mailto:info@christofressi.com" target="_blank">info@christofressi.com</a>><br>
Date:<br>
27/11/2021 ? 17:01<br>
<br>
To:<br>
Pd-List <<a href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" target="_blank">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
Two examples that come to my mind:<br>
<br>
1) [iemguts/canvasselect] allows to
(de)select objects simply by<span> </span><br>
index. No need to emulate mouse selection
with "mouse" and "mouseup".<br>
<br>
2) canvases/objects can be moved around
with [iemguts/canvasposition]<span> </span><br>
resp. [iemguts/canvasobjectposition]<br>
<br>
Are there any other use cases for "mouse"
and "mouseup"?<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Hi.
My 2 cents</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Personally,
I use mouse and mouseup messages to
forward multitouch<span> </span></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">events
into the patch, received? from my
multitouch linux laptop.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">If
those messages were blocked, all my
multitouch ecosystem would be out<span> </span></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">of
order :-) .</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">--------</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Dan
Wilcox</div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="http://twitter.com/danomatika" target="_blank">@danomatika</a></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="http://danomatika.com" target="_blank">danomatika.com</a></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="http://robotcowboy.com" target="_blank">robotcowboy.com</a></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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