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<p>Personally, I can't build fat macOS externals because I don't
have a (recent enough) Mac...</p>
<p>But generally you're right: it's not like we're talking about
thousands of packages. Deken currently lists 204 Darwin amd64
binaries, some of which are actually multiple versions of the same
library. So we're probably talking about 100 externals maximum.</p>
<p>But why not do both:</p>
<p>1) try to compile and upload as many universal binaries as
possible</p>
<p>2) make a better solution for the status quo (either seperate
builds or some big warning + instructions on the download page)</p>
<p>Christof<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 30.03.2022 17:30, Dan Wilcox wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1AA82C9B-A17B-4D96-8B22-47413744F7C5@gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
How many externals are there, really? For those that use
pd-lib-builder, it's a simple recompile.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I'd argue that more time has been spent writing
emails on this issue than it would take for each person to take
one external, make a fat build, and upload to deken.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We went through this already with the transition
from Pd-extended end-of-life to Pd vanilla + deken: there was
much handwrining about the extended externals not being easy to
install until someone (IOhannes) simply put the existing
compiled externals on deken.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">We know what needs to be done, so let's do it.<br
class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Mar 30, 2022, at 3:13 PM, <a
href="mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">pd-list-request@lists.iem.at</a>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta charset="UTF-8" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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!important;" class="">Message: 1</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
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!important;" class="">Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 12:24:02
+0200</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
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<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">From: Christof Ressi <</span><a
href="mailto:info@christofressi.com" style="font-family:
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class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">info@christofressi.com</a><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">></span><br style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
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start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
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class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">To: Pd-List <</span><a
href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" style="font-family:
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class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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!important;" class="">></span><br style="caret-color:
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12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
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start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
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class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd
0.52-2 released</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0,
0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px;
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class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">Message-ID: <</span><a
href="mailto:482236c3-8edb-7f21-6156-e18cc9035fd6@christofressi.com"
style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px;
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class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">482236c3-8edb-7f21-6156-e18cc9035fd6@christofressi.com</a><span
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">></span><br style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
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start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
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class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=UTF-8; format=flowed</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">Now *I* am utterly confused.</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Menlo-Regular;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
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class="">now people seem to all agree that it was much
better way back then.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
</blockquote>
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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!important;" class="">I think everybody agrees that
there should be an ARM64 binary for macOS.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">The question is just whether it
should be the default on M1 machines<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">when there are so few ARM64
externals for macOS available on Deken. (I<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">count 9: zexy, comport, xsample,
pool, clk, absattr, vasp, zconf,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">constantq~)</span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">Actually, this issue already came
up two months ago and someone called<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">it a "lousy UX":</span><br
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text-decoration: none;" class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<a
href="https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2022-01/130772.html"
style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px;
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class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2022-01/130772.html</a><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
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letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">So what has changed?</span><br
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text-decoration: none;" class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">---</span><br style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
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start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
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class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">As I said before, we might
alternatively add a disclaimer to the<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br
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0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
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text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">download page that people might
want to force-run Pd under Rosetta if<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">they don't find all the externals
they need.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">However, I'm not a Mac user and I
don't have a ball in this game. I was<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br
style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">just parotting what I thought the
consensus was back then...</span><br style="caret-color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"
class="">
<br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none;" class="">
<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Menlo-Regular; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">Christof</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">--------</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
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href="http://twitter.com/danomatika" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">@danomatika</a></div>
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moz-do-not-send="true">danomatika.com</a></div>
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href="http://robotcowboy.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">robotcowboy.com</a></div>
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<br class="">
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