<div dir="auto">Yes but RolI seaboard and linnstrument have polyphonic aftertouch, in fact they even have three expressive parameters per note. Pressure, X and Y axis. Since there is only one message per note available (polyphonic aftertouch) in standard MIDI, MPE was born to allow for polyphonic Pitchbend for example (each note potentially in different directions and at a different level)<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">there is not really anything to implement MPE wise, it is still standard MIDI messages, general modulation takes places on channel 1 and per note modulation is done with CC messages that are sent on Channel 2-16, in accordance to each new note that is played, that also gets a channel from 2 to 16 assigned in a round robin fashion (or other logic of you prefer).</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">And yes, that means your limited to 15 voices.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">So some route objects should work wonders :)</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 4 Oct 2022, 01:54 Alexandre Torres Porres, <<a href="mailto:porres@gmail.com">porres@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I was talking more about polyphonic aftertouch than rel velocity.<div><br></div><div>btw, Pd still needs implementations for MPE right?</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em seg., 3 de out. de 2022 às 01:42, Simon Iten <<a href="mailto:itensimon@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">itensimon@gmail.com</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Roli seaboard, linnstrument. Don't know if those have noteoff velocity, but they sure have MPE</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 3 Oct 2022, 00:39 Alexandre Torres Porres, <<a href="mailto:porres@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">porres@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em dom., 2 de out. de 2022 às 16:56, Simon Iten <<a href="mailto:itensimon@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">itensimon@gmail.com</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>there are “plenty” of polyphonic aftertouch controllers on the market, some of the newer MPE hardware controllers use CC messages for this though. (<a href="https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/midi-polyphonic-expression-mpe" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.midi.org/midi-articles/midi-polyphonic-expression-mpe</a>). some of them also have release velocity. </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>examples of such controllers please?</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>there are also quite some softsynths that handle release velocity (<a href="https://vital.audio" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://vital.audio</a> for a free example), so i would not exactly say this is that rare. and also it will get more common again i guess.</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 1 Oct 2022, at 15:36, Alexandre Torres Porres <<a href="mailto:porres@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">porres@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr">Cool, but not a 'classic keyboard' controller. I don't know any modern one with release velocity, and also with polyphonic aftertouch (at least a decent/proper one that is not a pad and actually uses pressure after you press the note).<div>cheers</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em sex., 30 de set. de 2022 às 17:09, Peter Brinkmann <<a href="mailto:peter.brinkmann@googlemail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">peter.brinkmann@googlemail.com</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">There's a new controller that uses Note Off velocity in an interesting way --- the <a href="https://www.recorderinstruments.com/en/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Artinoise re.corder</a> sends Note Off with nonzero velocity between slurred notes.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 9:30 AM Alexandre Torres Porres <<a href="mailto:porres@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">porres@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi, the ELSE library has [else/<a href="http://note.in/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">note.in</a>] and [else/note.out] which can handle proper note off messages. There's an object in cyclone (and also in MAX, of course) that can do that too, called [cyclone/xnotein] and [cyclone/xnoteout].<div><br></div><div>The use case of this is very rare as modern controllers don't really send note off messages anymore. I bought an old controller from the 80s that can do this, cause I'm a nerd and gear slut.</div><div><br></div><div>Note Off messages start with channel messages from 128 to 143 (128 being channel 1 up to 143 being channel 16) as Dan's test patch points out. You can use raw midi input from vanilla to listen to this and get the next two values which are MIDI note and release velocity. <br><br>I would also like this to be available in vanilla, but, hey, well, there are the mentioned externals already and this is quite rare as I pointed out. If you need to do it as a pure vanilla application for whatever reason, you can create such abstraction with [midiin].</div><div><br></div><div>cheers</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em qui., 29 de set. de 2022 às 19:19, Dan Wilcox <<a href="mailto:danomatika@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">danomatika@gmail.com</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>Pd treats noteoff as a noteon with 0 velocity, hence the [stripnote] object, etc.</div><div> </div>If you want to explicitly handle noteoff, you can look at the midi tester patch for working with raw bytes...<div><br></div><div>1. Help -> Browser...</div><div>2. Pure Data / 7.stuff / tools / miditester.pd</div><div>3. receive [pd channel messages]</div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Sep 27, 2022, at 9:56 PM, <a href="mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">pd-list-request@lists.iem.at</a> wrote:</div><br><div><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Message: 2</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 17:42:15 +0200</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">From: Lorenzo Sutton <</span><a href="mailto:lorenzofsutton@gmail.com" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">lorenzofsutton@gmail.com</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">To:<span> </span></span><a href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Subject: Re: [PD] MIDI / STATUS_BYTE / noteOn - noteOff mesage</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Message-ID: <</span><a href="mailto:b3832427-9b6d-ea0e-3d34-82245176e5ba@gmail.com" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">b3832427-9b6d-ea0e-3d34-82245176e5ba@gmail.com</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Hi,</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">On 26/09/2022 20:43, Maurin Donneaud wrote:</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none">Dear List<br><br>Looking at the MIDI 1.0 documentation :<br><a href="https://www.midi.org/specifications-old/item/table-2-expanded-messages-list-status-bytes" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.midi.org/specifications-old/item/table-2-expanded-messages-list-status-bytes</a><br><br>I notice that the MIDI NOTES are transmitted over three bytes<br>??? byte 1 -> STATUS_BYTE [chan & function]<br>??? byte 2 -> DATA_BYTE [note] (0-127)<br>??? byte 3 -> DATA_BYTE [velocity] (0-127)<br><br>I'm wandering if Pd have a simple object to extract the noteOn / noteOff<span> </span><br>message from the STATUS_BYTE.<br></blockquote><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">I think you should be able with [midiin].</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Note that as per MIDI spec, 'note off' can be either an explicit 'note<span> </span></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">off' message also containing a 'release velocity' value or (more common)<span> </span></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">a note on with velocity equal to zero (for example this is how Pd does a<span> </span></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">note on/off if you use the [makenote] object.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Lorenzo</span></div></blockquote></div><br><div>
<div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">--------</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Dan Wilcox</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="http://twitter.com/danomatika" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">@danomatika</a></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="http://danomatika.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">danomatika.com</a></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="http://robotcowboy.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">robotcowboy.com</a></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><br>
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