[PD-dev] Re: PD-cvs Digest, Vol 10, Issue 15

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Dec 16, 2005, at 4:53 PM, Tim Blechmann wrote:

>> This is exactly the reason why I am unwilling to work on pd-devel.
>> I have spent far too long on build systems and creating
>> cross-platform packages that actually work.  I have yet to see a
>> downloadable binary that works for pd-devel since I stopped doing it
>> at devel_0_37.  I have zero interest in applying my knowledge when
>> all I get in return is hostility. But its all free software, so feel
>> free to do so yourself.
>
> i can't follow this point ... it's perfectly possible to write a script
> in your favorite scripting language that downloads external sources
> decompresses and installs them (maybe not asiosdk, since it's
> proprietary)...

Sure, I've done that, checkout scripts/checkout-developer-layout.sh.   
But that does not help one bit when deciding _which version_ of  
portaudio to download, there is no released version of 19.  I suppose  
you could add the date tag to the script, but then you are building a  
code management system from scratch.  And that makes no sense to me  
when we are already using CVS, which is far better code management  
software than any script that any of us are going to write.

> scons e.g. offers the possibility to download sources directly from a
> cvs / svn / bitkeeper repository ... if you want to implement a
> 1-click solution, this would be the easiest way to go ...
> but i know, you dislike scons, it's possible to do that in each other
> scripting language ... possibly you can even implement this with pd ...

I have no problem with scons.  But I have never written a conf file for  
scons, or used python for that matter, so I can't say a lot.  I think  
that is the case for the large majority of the Pd developers. My first  
impression of scons is that its much slower than configure/make,   
probably because it does a lot of stuff automatically.  From my  
perspective, this really sucks when having to tweak the Pd-extended  
build on three different computers.

In a fresh CVS checkout of 0.38.4, autoconf && ./configure && make took  
a total of 34 seconds.

In a fresh CVS checkotu of pd devel_0_38, after waiting 14 minutes, 8  
seconds, I got this:

src/t_main.c:18:16: tk.h: No such file or directory
src/t_main.c:38: error: syntax error before '*' token
src/t_main.c: In function `main':
src/t_main.c:59: error: `Tcl_AppInit' undeclared (first use in this  
function)
src/t_main.c:59: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only  
once
src/t_main.c:59: error: for each function it appears in.)
src/t_main.c: At top level:
src/t_main.c:86: error: syntax error before "Tcl_Interp"
src/t_main.c:86: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
src/t_main.c:87: error: syntax error before '{' token
src/t_main.c:99: warning: parameter names (without types) in function  
declaration
src/t_main.c:99: error: conflicting types for `pdgui_startup'
src/t_main.c:38: error: previous declaration of `pdgui_startup'
src/t_main.c:99: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
src/t_main.c:112: error: syntax error before "return"
scons: *** [src/t_main.o] Error 1
scons: building terminated because of errors.


Make is old and a bit whacked, that I know, but it works everywhere,  
basically any C developer can open up a Makefile and parse it.  For the  
most part, its just lines you'd type into the shell.  Make is also been  
around a long time and the bugs have long since been worked out.  Plus  
there is decades of documentation, group and list posts, examples, etc.  
to learn from.  scons is at version 0.96, and they are still catching  
critical bugs.

scons sounds promising, I hope it gets better, and it probably handles  
complicated builds better than make.  But Pd really should not be  
complicated to build.  The complications are almost all because  
everyone wants to do everything their own way.  I encourage everyone to  
experiment with things like scons, svn, or whatever you want to.  But I  
propose we keep Pd a place to experiment with sound processing, media,  
realtime systems, etc.

Then when the critical bugs are ironed out with scons, and its  
progressed passed 1.0, and people have written nice Makefile conversion  
scripts, it could be worth the effort of all 40+ of us relearning a new  
build system, and many of us learning a new language to boot.

.hc

>
> t
>
> --  
> mailto:TimBlechmann at gmx.de    ICQ: 96771783
> http://www.mokabar.tk
>
> latest mp3: kMW.mp3
> http://mattin.org/mp3.html
>
> latest cd: Goh Lee Kwang & Tim Blechmann: Drone
> http://www.geocities.com/gohleekwangtimblechmannduo/
>
> After one look at this planet any visitor from outer space
> would say "I want to see the manager."
> 				      William S. Burroughs
>

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