[PD-dev] the future of [declare] and canvas_savedeclarationsto()

Thu May 22 21:44:21 CEST 2008

I finally realized realpath() is a pre-existing function.  (I imagined
it was sitting in another source file that didn't make it to the patch)

but.. "man realpath" says "Avoid using this function. It is broken by design..."
so I'm sceptical of the idea.  Anyway, why can't [import] just make the
call if it needs it?

cheers
M

On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 09:33:14PM +0200, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> The only real change to s_main.c in that path is the addition of  
> realpath().  It seems that the function there is just copying the  
> strings back and forth between sbuf and sbuf2, so I just added one  
> more iteration of that back and forth for realpath().
> 
> .hc
> 
> On May 22, 2008, at 9:25 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> 
> >I might have missed it, but I didn't see that realpath() itself  
> >made it into
> >the patch... ?
> >
> >M
> >
> >On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 09:22:12PM +0200, Hans-Christoph Steiner  
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>The realpath() is definitely related.  If you start Pd using a
> >>relative path, like I do when doing dev work (e.g. make && ../bin/
> >>pd), then sys_libdir will be a relative path.  That means it is
> >>impossible to make absolute paths using sys_libdir, which is what I
> >>need to do to make [import] work, or loading libdirs with [declare -
> >>lib] and the libdir loader.
> >>
> >>I can't see any problems that realpath() might cause.
> >>
> >>.hc
> >>
> >>On May 22, 2008, at 8:45 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> >>
> >>>OK, I took most of the patch (not the "realpath()" call which seems
> >>>unrelated) and uploaded to SVN, unless I'm mistaken.
> >>>
> >>>cheers
> >>>Miller
> >>>
> >>>On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 08:22:23PM +0200, Hans-Christoph Steiner
> >>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>I was looking into this a bit more, and from what I can tell, the
> >>>>canvas-local path (ce_path) is always relative to the path of the
> >>>>parent patch.  Here's the commit for pd-extended that adds support
> >>>>for absolute paths:
> >>>>
> >>>>http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data?
> >>>>view=rev&revision=9862
> >>>>
> >>>>Also, I submitted a patch:
> >>>>
> >>>>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?
> >>>>func=detail&aid=1917574&group_id=55736&atid=478072
> >>>>
> >>>>.hc
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>On May 19, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I think I fixed the full paths bug, here's the commit:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data?
> >>>>>view=rev&revision=9856
> >>>>>
> >>>>>.hc
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On May 19, 2008, at 8:03 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I think this issue is pretty clear, and the languages that I know
> >>>>>>would fall along the lines of "each patch/abstraction has its own
> >>>>>>namespace" or in other words "#include only affects the one .c
> >>>>>>file",  "import only affects the one .py file", etc.  So I agree
> >>>>>>with Frank.  Global settings are global, and canvas-local  
> >>>>>>settings
> >>>>>>are local to the original file.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The "semi-functional" part is the full paths that Marius  
> >>>>>>mentioned.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Then the other question is how to use something like "#X  
> >>>>>>declare"/
> >>>>>>canvas_savedeclarationsto() in externals.  I'd like to create an
> >>>>>>[import] modelled after Python's import does, so I'd like to use
> >>>>>>"#X declare"/canvas_savedeclarationsto() with it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>.hc
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>On May 19, 2008, at 6:33 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Hi all,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I use 'declare' all the time.. don't think it's  
> >>>>>>>semifunctional at
> >>>>>>>all.
> >>>>>>>I think the questions about how declares should act inside
> >>>>>>>abstractions
> >>>>>>>are hard to resolve; in my own usage (and in the way I suggest
> >>>>>>>others might
> >>>>>>>want to use declare) it's always in the main patch, as a way to
> >>>>>>>show the
> >>>>>>>patch what libraries, etc, it needs.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>cheers
> >>>>>>>Miller
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 06:28:31PM +0200, Hans-Christoph Steiner
> >>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Hey,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>So I am diving into the whole canvas-local namespace and
> >>>>>>>>[declare]
> >>>>>>>>issue these days.  I like the new "#X declare"/
> >>>>>>>>canvas_savedeclarationsto() functionality, I think it could be
> >>>>>>>>useful
> >>>>>>>>for a lot of things.  I was thinking of making an API to use
> >>>>>>>>it in
> >>>>>>>>externals, something like sys_register_loader().  I have two
> >>>>>>>>questions, first, how entrenched is the current behavior of
> >>>>>>>>[declare]?  It currently is only semi-functional, and I  
> >>>>>>>>think few
> >>>>>>>>people use it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>The second is how to structure this for general use.  I have
> >>>>>>>>thought
> >>>>>>>>of two ways:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>- make "declare" the key word and allow other objectclasses to
> >>>>>>>>have
> >>>>>>>>their own custom "#X declare" data.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>- allow objectclasses to register their own declaration key
> >>>>>>>>words,
> >>>>>>>>like [import] could have "#X import".
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>The first would mean changing the behavior of [declare], the
> >>>>>>>>second
> >>>>>>>>could lead to a big mess...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>.hc
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------- 
> >>>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>>--
> >>>>>>>>-----
> >>>>>>>>----
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know
> >>>>>>>>how to
> >>>>>>>>realize his wishes.  Now that he can realize them, he must  
> >>>>>>>>either
> >>>>>>>>change them, or perish.    -William Carlos Williams
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>PD-dev mailing list
> >>>>>>>>PD-dev at iem.at
> >>>>>>>>http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------- 
> >>>>>>--
> >>>>>>--
> >>>>>>-------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is
> >>>>>>publicity.          - Bill Moyers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you
> >>>>>can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> >>>>--
> >>>>---
> >>>>----
> >>>>
> >>>>News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is
> >>>>publicity.          - Bill Moyers
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>PD-dev mailing list
> >>>>PD-dev at iem.at
> >>>>http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> >>---
> >>----
> >>
> >>News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is
> >>publicity.          - Bill Moyers
> >>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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