[PD-dev] Pd-extended-0.43 appearance
Jonathan Wilkes
jancsika at yahoo.com
Sat Oct 22 18:34:37 CEST 2011
----- Original Message -----
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
> To: Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Miller Puckette <msp at ucsd.edu>; "pd-dev at iem.at" <pd-dev at iem.at>
> Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 12:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [PD-dev] Pd-extended-0.43 appearance
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2011, at 11:56 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
>>> To: Miller Puckette <msp at ucsd.edu>
>>> Cc: pd-dev at iem.at
>>> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 11:33 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [PD-dev] Pd-extended-0.43 appearance
>>>
>>>
>>> That would be great, to make it really work well, we need to move as
> much of the
>>> GUI handling to pd-gui and have pd talk only using pd messages. So
> something
>>> like this:
>>>
>>> pd-gui
>>> ------
>>> \ click in a box to edit the text
>>> \ edit the text in the box "osc~ 500"
>>> \ click on canvas to create the new object
>>> \ pd-gui sends message to pd
>>> pd
>>> --
>>> \ pd receives ".x872342 updateobj 5 osc~ 500
>>> \ pd recreates obj #5 with "osc~ 500"
>>>
>>> Things like that. This also means that we can use Tk's built-in
> zooming
>>> support, so we can have patches be fully zoomable to any arbitrary
> size.
>>
>> If you're talking about the canvas scale subcommand, keep in mind that
>> fonts and bitmaps don't get scaled.
>
> I'm talking about tk scaling. I am pretty sure fonts get scaled, but I
> don't know about bitmaps.
Oh. Fonts specified in point size will get scaled using the tk scale subcommand,
but fonts in pixel size (i.e., specified as negative numbers) will not.
Also keep in mind that pd boxes and xlets (and custom guis) are specified with
pixel coordinates and don't get scaled by using [tk scale].
>
>> Also, you stated below that box sizes are hard coded in both (current)
> extended and
>> vanilla. Does that include box width? If so, that would mean that the
> entire pd
>> diagram-- except for the specific font used-- would appear pixel exact on
> any
>> platform. But the OP is to the contrary, so does hard-coded mean minimums
> are
>> set and extra space is allotted as needed?
>
> The sizes are specified per character.
>
>> Maybe a better question is-- could you point me to the spot where the
> hard-coded
>> values are specified?
>
> tcl/pd-gui.tcl, see font_fixed_metrics
>
> .hc
>
>
>>
>> -Jonathan
>>
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>> On Oct 21, 2011, at 7:48 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh -- I misunderstood.
>>>>
>>>> I like the idea of making this an option (eitehr growing to the
> standard
>>>> box size or huggung the actual size of the font we're getting).
>>>>
>>>> cheers
>>>> Miller
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 07:43:17PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we're talking about the box sizes rather than the
> font
>>> sizes.
>>>>> Those can just be hard-coded to a certain size in pixels, then
> the font
>>>>> can be measured to fit into those boxes. That's the
> approach that
>>>>> Pd-extended has been doing since 0.41 or 0.40, I forget which.
>>> That's
>>>>> how it works in Pd vanilla 0.43 too.
>>>>>
>>>>> To handle font size differences, the box sizing needs to be
> handled in
>>>>> Tcl, as well as the mouse and click handling. For something
> like
>>>>> clicking to edit an object box, Pd only needs to know what the
> new text
>>>>> is once the editing is done.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roman, I think the thing to do is to measure the boxes for each
> release
>>>>> in question on each platform so we know where the problem lies.
>>> That's
>>>>> what I did back in the day to make the boxes the same pixel
> sizes.
>>>>>
>>>>> .hc
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 21, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Last I checked things were completely inconsistent and no
> version
>>>>>> ("normal"
>>>>>> or extended) got the same font sizes across platforms. If
> anyone
>>> can
>>>>>> figure out how to make that work robustly I'm all for
> it. One
>>>>>> headache
>>>>>> is that I've tried to make PD use natively available
> fonts
>>> which
>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>> will have - and there simply don't seem to be natively
>>> available fonts
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> comparable sizes between Pc/Mac/linux.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>> Miller
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll check that again. It seemed to me that the
> Pd-vanilla
>>> looked
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> much the same on OS X and Linux, at least since 0.43. I
>>> haven't
>>>>>>> checked
>>>>>>> Windows yet. Also I had the impression that Pd-vanilla
>>> doesn't have a
>>>>>>> different appearance across different Linuxes anymore.
> I
>>> remember it
>>>>>>> being dependent on some DPI setting, but I haven't
>>> encountered that
>>>>>>> issue anymore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I tried to get these changes into vanilla, but I
> guess
>>> Miller didn't
>>>>>>>> want them. I've already spent a lot of time on
> it, so
>>> I've moved on
>>>>>>>> since it works in Pd-extended. There should be a
> whole
>>> history of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> discussion on pd-dev, i.e. the details of the
> issues. I
>>> don't
>>>>>>>> remember them, I'm sure it was some annoying
> technical
>>> details.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, you can see the changes that pd-extended
> makes to
>>> puredata but
>>>>>>>> looking at the pd-extended.git in the
>>> 'patch_series' branch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the explanations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Pd-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> Pd-dev at iem.at
>>>>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> 'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she
> said,
>>> hobbling
>>>>> away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another
> pink-
>>>>> collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive
> property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an
> individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the
> moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the
> receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. - Thomas Jefferson
>
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