[PD] PD usability

mark mark at junklight.com
Thu Feb 13 00:27:51 CET 2003


I don't want to get rid of the patches. What I want is a 
reference book I can browse through looking for ideas 
etc. *as well*. So basically assuming that authors will 
write help patches then it needs to be generated from those.
PDF will look the same (but won't work but could be printed
for example).

cheers

mark

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Nish-Lapidus [mailto:mattn-l at rogers.com] 
> Sent: 12 February 2003 23:24
> To: mark; 'pd-list'
> Subject: Re: [PD] PD usability
> 
> 
> i don't know if PDF is the best solution.. the best thing 
> about good doc patches is that they're usable patches.. you 
> can just copy parts of them to save time.
> 
> matt.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mark" <mark at junklight.com>
> To: "'Matthew Nish-Lapidus'" <mattn-l at rogers.com>; 
> "'pd-list'" <pd-list at iem.kug.ac.at>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 6:21 PM
> Subject: RE: [PD] PD usability
> 
> 
> Indeed - this is something annoying me to. I want a reference 
> manual. I'm working on two new externals and then I am going 
> to look into this. There must be a way to autogenerate either 
> the patches or reference pages. My ideal would be to take the 
> patches and autocompile them into a PDF.
> 
> I will be reopening this debate in a week or two when I am 
> ready to do something about it.
> 
> cheers
> 
> mark
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pd-list-admin at iem.kug.ac.at 
> [mailto:pd-list-admin at iem.kug.ac.at] 
> > On Behalf Of Matthew Nish-Lapidus
> > Sent: 12 February 2003 23:13
> > To: 'pd-list'
> > Subject: Re: [PD] PD usability
> >
> >
> > i would have to say the biggest issue that i have with PD is docs.  
> > MAX's help files are amazing.. if PD had help files like that there 
> > would be a lot less difference between PD and MAX in the learning 
> > phase.
> >
> > matt.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "mark" <mark at junklight.com>
> > To: "'Marc Lavallée'" <odradek at videotron.ca>; "'pd-list'" 
> > <pd-list at iem.kug.ac.at>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:59 PM
> > Subject: RE: [PD] PD usability
> >
> >
> > If it where me that wanted to make PD more "producty" 
> (technical term 
> > that :-) - and its not -  I already have enough joy with 
> this at work 
> > with users/support/testing/load testing/a development team/a dept. 
> > head/etc. - Then I would try to establish a small group of 
> volunteers 
> > to do the work. I am sure the rest of the community would 
> support such 
> > an effort if it didn't mean much work on their part.
> >
> > The key areas I see as being vital are;
> >
> > installer - not always an easy job 'cos of the platform 
> thing (and the 
> > quality of the tools). As a guide I have had a team member put in 
> > about 6 man months over the last two years on our installer.
> >
> > Config - midi/audio selection would have to be a preferences dialog 
> > for the more casual user. I guess this would have 
> implications on how 
> > PD starts up too.
> >
> > GUI - you can argue its fine until you are blue in the face 
> - people 
> > are used to and expect pretty interfaces - if you want 
> > minimalist/functional then it needs to be *designer* minimalist 
> > functional (think Peter Saville/factory records). Its just 
> the way it 
> > goes.
> >
> > Docs - there needs to be a reference manual. Again you can 
> argue about 
> > it all you like - not having one means that the beginner 
> has to do a 
> > lot more work to get into the product.
> >
> > Support - who is going to provide support to people. What 
> happens when 
> > the mailing list is full of people going - "it does't work on my 
> > pc..why?" or "I NEED feature X..why can't you make it do that"
> >
> > Don't get me wrong - PD is just great as it is as far as I am 
> > concerned
> > - what
> > I am talking about is making it accessible to a wider audience. It 
> > will grow larger as time goes by and by having a high level of 
> > knowledge needed for entry we make life easier for ourselves.
> >
> > Again - not trying to pour water on ideas but if you want 
> to make PD 
> > accessible to a wider audience you need to consider what is involved
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > mark
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: pd-list-admin at iem.kug.ac.at
> [mailto:pd-list-admin at iem.kug.ac.at]
> > On Behalf Of Marc Lavallée
> > Sent: 12 February 2003 22:37
> > To: 'pd-list'
> > Subject: RE: [PD] PD usability
> >
> >
> > Le mer 12/02/2003 à 16:59, mark a écrit :
> >
> > > Sorry to be blunt about this but I did say I had my day 
> job hat on.
> > > :-)
> >
> > I actually resigned from a well paid job in a university center 
> > because I was unable to bring artists to use free software 
> and be more
> 
> > responsible. I had to manage a bunch of projects, buy computers and 
> > softwares, and program "art". It was a stupid and 
> impossible mandate, 
> > because artists (especially students) must do their own stuff, not 
> > always rely on programmers to hold the mouse for them. Of 
> course, most 
> > artists were asking for Macs/Max/MSP/Jitter, leaving little 
> money for 
> > anything else, including humain brain juice.
> >
> > So for me, a "better" PD would have been cool. I won't 
> accept such a 
> > job unless artists agrees to change their tools and their attitude 
> > toward technology. But we need to help them a little bit, 
> or I might 
> > never work with them again.
> >
> > --
> > Marc
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > PD-list at iem.kug.ac.at
> http://iem.kug.ac.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
> 
> 
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