[PD] PD usability

Thu Feb 13 13:29:30 CET 2003

about the "easy to understand" Max/MSP - thing:

i have the impression that the vast majority of people using Max/Msp just for the use of other people's patches. they would never 
think of entering the "editing - modus" themselves. they would shit their pants. so the argument about it's practical and market-
conform shape is not convincing

2nd, i made the experience that with a little effort in tidying your work up and packing all the necessary stuff in, you can produce 
"user-only"-works with PD as well, or even better. i gave some of mine to friends who are strictly users, and all worked without any 
problem, because (so much for "easier" installation"...) no installation process is needed.

just my 2 cents

oliver

13.02.2003 12:56:41, "mark" <mark at junklight.com> wrote:

>Unix users don't mind 'apt-get install pd'. Windows users 
>in general will get put out by anything other than setup.exe.
>
>Installing externals requires command lines or editing batch files
>- again unacceptable to a lot of users. 
>
>I am not saying that PD is not useable to its current users - what it 
>is not is a PRODUCT. which is what would be needed to broaden its 
>user base...
>
>cheers 
>
>mark 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: pd-list-admin at iem.kug.ac.at [mailto:pd-list-admin at iem.kug.ac.at]
>On Behalf Of delire
>Sent: 13 February 2003 21:51
>To: pd-list at iem.kug.ac.at
>Subject: Re: [PD] PD usability
>
>
>errm, i believe the last time i installed pd was with the gruellingly
>challenging command: 
>
>'apt-get install pd'
>
>for the similarly terrifying, strategically impossible debian
>distribution ;)
>
>again, a progress bar does not make installation 'easier' only more
>comforting. this is the question here. anyway, i tend to distrust
>operating systems that allow me to install software with a double click.
>
>yesterday a friend couldn't stop telling me "just how easy" using the
>planetCCRMA system was [30 free applications fresh from the web, one
>command]. the time it took him to install these applications is about
>the same amount of time [i hear] it takes to install Logic.
>
>i understand however installing software under windows or macOSX is
>often more difficult.
>
>julian
>
>On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:59:41 -0000
>"mark" <mark at junklight.com> wrote:
>
>//If it where me that wanted to make PD more "producty" (technical 
>//term that :-) - and its not -  I already have enough joy with this 
>//at work with users/support/testing/load testing/a development //team/a
>dept. head/etc. - Then I would try to establish a small group //of
>volunteers to do the work. I am sure the rest of the community 
>//would support such an effort if it didn't mean much work on their 
>//part. 
>//
>//The key areas I see as being vital are;
>//
>//installer - not always an easy job 'cos of the platform thing (and the
>
>//quality of the tools). As a guide I have had a team member put in 
>//about 6 man months over the last two years on our installer. 
>//
>//Config - midi/audio selection would have to be a preferences //dialog
>for the more casual user. I guess this would have implications //on how
>PD starts up too. 
>//
>//GUI - you can argue its fine until you are blue in the face - people 
>//are used to and expect pretty interfaces - if you want
>//minimalist/functional //then it needs to be *designer* minimalist
>functional (think Peter //Saville/factory //records). Its just the way
>it goes. // //Docs - there needs to be a reference manual. Again you can
>argue 
>//about it all you like - not having one means that the beginner has to 
>//do a lot more work to get into the product. 
>//
>//Support - who is going to provide support to people. What happens when
>//the mailing list is full of people going - "it does't work on my
>//pc..why?" or //"I NEED feature X..why can't you make it do that" //
>//Don't get me wrong - PD is just great as it is as far as I am
>concerned
>//- what 
>//I am talking about is making it accessible to a wider audience. It 
>//will grow larger as time goes by and by having a high level of
>knowledge //needed for entry we make life easier for ourselves. //
>//Again - not trying to pour water on ideas but if you want to make PD 
>//accessible to a wider audience you need to consider what is involved
>// //cheers 
>//
>//mark 
>//
>//
>//
>//> -----Original Message-----
>//> From: pd-list-admin at iem.kug.ac.at 
>//> [mailto:pd-list-admin at iem.kug.ac.at] On Behalf Of Marc Lavallée //>
>Sent: 12 February 2003 22:37 //> To: 'pd-list' //> Subject: RE: [PD] PD
>usability //> 
>//> 
>//> Le mer 12/02/2003 à 16:59, mark a écrit :
>//> 
>//> > Sorry to be blunt about this but I did say I had my day job hat
>on. 
>//> > :-)
>//> 
>//> I actually resigned from a well paid job in a university 
>//> center because I was unable to bring artists to use free 
>//> software and be more responsible. I had to manage a bunch of 
>//> projects, buy computers and softwares, and program "art". It 
>//> was a stupid and impossible mandate, because artists 
>//> (especially students) must do their own stuff, not always 
>//> rely on programmers to hold the mouse for them. Of course, 
>//> most artists were asking for Macs/Max/MSP/Jitter, leaving 
>//> little money for anything else, including humain brain juice. //> 
>//> So for me, a "better" PD would have been cool. I won't accept 
>//> such a job unless artists agrees to change their tools and 
>//> their attitude toward technology. But we need to help them a 
>//> little bit, or I might never work with them again.
>//> 
>//> --
>//> Marc
>//> 
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