ats is very cool uses clm etc... http://www.unq.edu.ar/cme/personales/odiliscia/software/ATSH-doc.htm Fossa is a graphical FE for Loris http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=10192&release_id=10742 6 these would be way cool woven into the pd being able to tweak and read .sdifs Patrick