[PD] A newbie needs first aid!

Bradon Webb amodiuslonodium at yahoo.com
Wed Feb 4 16:18:06 CET 2004

--- Pall Thayer <palli at pallit.lhi.is> wrote:

> > Hallo,
> > Rory Walsh hat gesagt: // Rory Walsh wrote:
> > 

> >  If I was a teacher, I would love my students to
> go out,
> > find experts, speak to them and learn from them.
> Not all knowledge is
> > buried at schools and colleges. So unless they
> just rip off someone
> > else's work and pretend it's their own, this
> should be fine, even
> > encouraged.
> > 

I hope that my work will not be just ripped off! not
really for my sake, but for the one using the
information.  Although I did kind of set up a
situation for that to easily happen.  It did not seem
like that much work.  The whole thing pieced together
in less than 20 min.  If someone turns this in as a
complete project for a grade, I feel sorry for them,
because they have learned not much.  There is no
intention on my part to complete someones school
project for them, but merely serve up some technical
advice with examples of something they might be
looking for with the hope that they may expand upon
what I have given them.  I myself am out of school, so
my viewpoint on sharing is somewhat different in the
proffessional collaborative sense now.  

> I am a teacher and encourage my students to go out
> and seek information 
> themselves. Of course, if they manage to find
> someone who is willing to do 
> ALL the work for them, that's pretty sad. People
> should understand that 
> you're not really helping a student if you provide
> them with what they 
> should do themselves. The right thing to do is
> simply point them in the 
> right direction, tell them what externals they may
> need, where to find 
> them and where they can find information that may
> help them to accomplish 
> whatever they're doing.

point well taken,
maybe I have gone too far.  In the future maybe I
should present my help to others in a different
language format instead of speaking the same language
that they are working in.  a simmilar example might
be... instead of providing a painter who wants to know
about painting with a painting, give them a technical
manual about oil or acrylic painting brushes and

...sorry this is kind of a sensitive issue with
myself... I will go on...

I have had the experience with PD and the list that
sometimes the help people provide is somewhat obscure
and pretty miminal as far as from a new user
stanpoint.  I have to say that boxed packages are by
far more friendly to students than PD speeking from a
how-to-use-and-get-help perspective.  There are tons
of assumptions people make when they explain something
to someone and especially when you use a written form
of language.  It is as if people think you have been
coding and programming in C++ since you were 2.  The
best way for me to learn this application has been to
actually see working examples and how things are
connected.  Now that I have been working with PD for a
year, I feel I can begin to understand its abstract
language and can relate that to the language of what
someone is telling me I need to do.  I remember when I
first started I had tons of problems (still do) and I
could not find answers that would be descriptive
enough or point me in the direction of finding a
soulution and sadly in the end abandoned alot of
projects because of it.

I have had maybe some bad experiences with technology,
where friends and colleagues would not show anyone
anything technically speeking...  The way I think they
saw it was I could attain their knowledge and rival
them in the market place, or produce art simmilar to
what they were doing or, what they had learned was
somehow intrinsic to themselves and their path and
thus uniportant to everyone else.  I have a feeling it
was more the latter than the former. everything they
did was a deep secret.  I absolutely hated this
standpoint.  maybe now though I appreciate them by
protecting me from not learning, by really learning
(the cause of much pain in the front lobe by banging
head against wall).  It does depend on the situation,
but I do think that giving someone the "magic button"
for a solution is wrong.  It depends on the reasoning.
 I do for example drive an automobile, and when it
breaks I look for, the "majic button".  This usually
means a mechanic who will do the work for me.  That
way I do not have to spend the time learning about
fuel pumps, and carberators, but I can spend more of
my time making art.  I do not claim to know about
cars, but I have chosen to drive one.  there seems
like there is some knoledge for things that is on a
must know basis, and other knowledge that is merely
running the thing but could care less how it works
basis.  I realize the err in my thinking as I could
have checked first.  It is really all about intent I
guess.  I hope to have not undermined anyones
educaional experience (which ironically has turned out
quite educational for myself).  I did not feel bad
about helping this person in this way, but maybe now I
do.  I just got overwhelmed with the thought giving
someone exactly what they needed and helping them
instead of beating around the bush.  This I guess
because I figured the soulution in this case was more
important than the process.  In the future I will try
to be more ethical with my help.


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