[PD] uPDated gets Impd (OSX)

Hans-Christoph Steiner hans at eds.org
Tue Mar 16 06:36:31 CET 2004

On Monday, Mar 15, 2004, at 20:11 America/New_York, James Tittle II 

> hey,
> On Mar 15, 2004, at 2:36 PM, 0001 wrote:
>> ok.
>> my current projects about it  include:
>> 	- getting tcl / tk inside the bundle
> ...this is kinda possible, but probably not in the way you're 
> thinking...you have to make wish.app think it's something else, and I 
> don't think that's necessarily very good anyway (kinda defeats the 
> original idea of frameworks and dynamic libraries)...

You do not need to include Tcl/Tk inside the bundle in order to achieve 
app-like behavior or drag-n-drop installing.  AFAIK, Apple is moving 
towards including the Tcl/Tk frameworks in the OS, so eventually, 
Tcl/Tk will be there.  And you can make an almost native app by making 
a custom Wish Shell.app.  Check out Wavesurfer for a good example of 


Here's something of a howto:


> ...I was recently trying uPDated.app out, and I found some issues;  
> basically, it kind of defeats the purpose to include 
> help/example/tutorial patches within an application bundle, because 
> they aren't accessible in the navigation dialog window browser...

That can be easily fixed by specifying the path in the Makefile var 
"INSTALL_PREFIX".  But this again makes a fixed location, so 
drag-n-drop installation would only work for one folder path, unless 
there is a way to use relative paths.  I haven't tried that.

>> 	- packing it with any licenses, copyright notices and due credit for 
>> all authors

The installer is a good platform for that.  Otherwise, the docs.

>> 	- making several versions: one minimal (pd only, faster download) 
>> and one with everything available, compiled for g3 and g4
> ...there are sooo many possibilities with this one:  "official", 
> "cvs", "Impd-ized", "tcl/tk8.4", "tcl/tk8.5"...not to mention the 
> possibilities for adding externals and such...in other words, I don't 
> think it's realistic to expect a "one-size-fits-all" version...

I would really like to be able to compile optimized versions.  This 
would entail coming up with a standard scheme for all externals, etc. 
to use for optimization.  It'll a lot of work, but it would be great if 
we could just:

make OPT=G5 darwin_pkg  (for example)

>> 	- writing some documentation for self-service management of the 
>> bundle contents
>> any ideas?
>> what are you planning?
> ...well, I really think that whatever happens, if you're going to try 
> to create a one-click application, you have to initially present an 
> input line for flag customization...I've got code that does this, but 
> haven't taken the time to squash the bug that crashes pd if you don't 
> input a flag...

That's what the .pdrc is for.  A GUI editor for it would be nice 
though.  LoadMyLibs does a lot of this.

>> I personaly would like to eliminate the need of an installer, but I 
>> don't know it is possible with the same level of functionality of 
>> your current packages.
> ...yeh, I recently got back from a workshop at apple, and they are 
> really pushing the "drag and drop install" paradigm with games, and I 
> think that it could work to a certain extent for pure-data...but 
> ultimately I really think there needs to be something like 
> ~/Library/pd to hold externals and patches and stuff...

I think that ~/Library/pd would be a good place for people to add the 
stuff they download later, but I think that all of Pd should be in one 
folder, /Applications/Pure Data.app for example, so that it can be 
dragged-n-dropped if need be.  The installer is necessary to provide 
the UNIX/command line functionality, i.e. typing "pd" on the command 
line to launch, or using pdsend and pdreceive from the command line.


> ...anyway, good direction, I really like the icon:  I just hope we can 
> avoid some balkanization...
> l8r,
> jamie
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