[PD] 14bit midi. nrpn and ctlin

Nicholas Ward nicholas.ward at cs.tcd.ie
Thu Jul 7 21:04:14 CEST 2005 

Okay getting somewhere,
It works fine if I plug the bcf2000 into my midi interface with midi 
cables (why didnt i try that earlier!).
It doesnt work for NRPN if i use the USB connection to connect the 
BCF2000 directly to the computer.
hmmmm? buffers?



On 7 Jul 2005, at 19:41, Martin Peach wrote:

> What if you send it the four messages manually in sequence instead of 
> all at once? e.g. make a patch that uses ctlout and plug your MIDI out 
> to your MIDI in.
> All I can think of is the usual culprits: buffer overflow or running 
> status, neither of which should be a problem with recent pd versions.
> Martin
>
> Nicholas Ward wrote:
>
>> yep,
>> Thats what i did.
>> it prints nothing for an nrpn and fine for ctrlin and yet i can see 
>> the nrpn data fine in midi monitor!
>> baffling
>>
>>
>> On 7 Jul 2005, at 18:56, Martin Peach wrote:
>>
>>> The source code for the ctlin object is in s_midi.c and x_midi.c, 
>>> all it does is list whatever cc message comes its way.
>>> There is no difference between cc98 and cc3 as far as [ctlin] is 
>>> concerned. No other filtering is done inside pd.
>>> If you open the nrpnin abstraction that David attached you'll see 
>>> that it contains a [ctlin] and is otherwise made of standard pd 
>>> objects that all work on OSX.
>>> I would make a simple patch like this (the first part of the 
>>> $0-nrpnin-guts subpatch):
>>> [ctlin]
>>> |  |  |
>>> [pack f f f]
>>> |
>>> [print]
>>> ...and have a look at what it prints.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> Nicholas Ward wrote:
>>>
>>>> No the abstraction is fine. Its ctlin thats the problem.. NRPNs are 
>>>> (as far as i understand) just four controller messages in a row. 
>>>> cc99 , cc98, specifying the parameter to affect and cc6 and cc38 
>>>> specifying the value. looking at plumstone output (a java extension 
>>>> for OS X with a tester app that shows incoming midi) I see this is 
>>>> the case. e.g.
>>>>
>>>> time             ch cc data
>>>> 9567000 [11:4 99 0]
>>>> 9567000 [11:4 98 4]
>>>> 9567000 [11:4 6 10]
>>>> 9567000 [11:4 38 27]
>>>>
>>>> so thats why i dont see why ctlin has a problem with them. If i 
>>>> send a cc99 message to ctlin it has no problem.
>>>>
>>>> Is nrpn just not supported by ctlin on os x?
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> On 7 Jul 2005, at 17:01, Martin Peach wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Checking http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tech/midispec/nrpn.htm it 
>>>>> seems that nrpns _are_ standard cc messages: they're 98 and 99.
>>>>> If your [ctlin] outputs those then the problem is with the nrpn 
>>>>> abstraction.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicholas Ward wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>> The problem is with ctlin. I attached a print to a ctlin. Loads 
>>>>>> of numbers for standard cc messages. Not a sausage for nrpn!
>>>>>> Any other ideas out there?
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2005, at 06:32, David NG McCallum wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nick,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've actually updated the abstractions but haven't bothered to 
>>>>>>> upload
>>>>>>> them (I think). I've attached them here, hope no one minds. The 
>>>>>>> logic
>>>>>>> hasn't changed at all, it's just a little more elegant (maybe).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure about your problem, though... Are you having problems 
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> [nrpnin], or just getting *any* data from [ctlin] when using the 
>>>>>>> nrpn
>>>>>>> controllers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me know if you have problems with the newer [nrpnin]. I've 
>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>> actually tested them on nrpn hardware. I still have no idea why 
>>>>>>> I spent
>>>>>>> the time working on them. :) But I've been told they work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cheers,
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>> __ _  _  _ _ __ ___ _  ___ __ _ _ _ ____ __
>>>>>>> Music wants to be free   http://sintheta.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicholas Ward wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>> Im trying to get 14bit midi messages into pd. This was 
>>>>>>>> discussed a few
>>>>>>>> months ago and I've got an  abstraction nrpnin to parse the 
>>>>>>>> output from
>>>>>>>> a ctlin from David McCallum's site
>>>>>>>> http://www.mentalfloss.ca/sintheta/html/downloads.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Im using a behringer bcf2000 controller.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The problem is Ctlin doesnt output anything if i send an nrpn 
>>>>>>>> message.
>>>>>>>> It happily works for standard CC. Is this normal? Im on os x 
>>>>>>>> 10.3.9 and
>>>>>>>> pd.app 0.38-4RC0.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any ideas ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nicky
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ive installed midi monitor and can see that the bcf is 
>>>>>>>> outputting the
>>>>>>>> midi message fine, below is the output for one complete message.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 01:37:22.548    From BCF2000    Control    5    Non-Registered 
>>>>>>>> Parameter
>>>>>>>> MSB    0
>>>>>>>> 01:37:22.548    From BCF2000    Control    5    Non-Registered 
>>>>>>>> Parameter
>>>>>>>> LSB    10
>>>>>>>> 01:37:22.548    From BCF2000    Control    5    Data Entry 
>>>>>>>> (coarse)    3
>>>>>>>> 01:37:22.548    From BCF2000    Control    5    Data Entry 
>>>>>>>> (fine)    105
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #N canvas 11 85 454 460 10;
>>>>>>> #X text 116 168 Data comes in as:;
>>>>>>> #X text 115 187 Parameter MSB: Ctl 99;
>>>>>>> #X text 115 199 Parameter LSB: Ctl 98;
>>>>>>> #X text 114 212 Value MSB: Ctl 6;
>>>>>>> #X text 114 224 Value LSB: Ctl 38;
>>>>>>> #X text 156 337 value;
>>>>>>> #X text 214 316 parameter;
>>>>>>> #X obj 110 335 outlet;
>>>>>>> #X obj 167 313 outlet;
>>>>>>> #X obj 224 290 outlet;
>>>>>>> #X text 273 289 channel;
>>>>>>> #N canvas 458 0 656 592 1001-nrpnin_guts 0;
>>>>>>> #X obj 120 26 ctlin;
>>>>>>> #X text 166 530 value;
>>>>>>> #X text 220 499 parameter;
>>>>>>> #X obj 120 49 pack f f f;
>>>>>>> #X msg 120 72 \$3 \$2 \$1;
>>>>>>> #X obj 120 97 route \$2;
>>>>>>> #X obj 171 120 spigot;
>>>>>>> #X obj 208 28 loadbang;
>>>>>>> #X obj 208 49 f \$2;
>>>>>>> #X obj 208 70 sel 0;
>>>>>>> #X msg 208 92 1;
>>>>>>> #X text 257 60 if no midi channel specified \, omni;
>>>>>>> #X obj 171 363 spigot;
>>>>>>> #X obj 208 275 loadbang;
>>>>>>> #X obj 208 317 sel 0;
>>>>>>> #X msg 208 339 1;
>>>>>>> #X obj 120 249 route \$1;
>>>>>>> #X msg 171 147 \$2 \$3;
>>>>>>> #X obj 208 296 f \$1;
>>>>>>> #X obj 120 528 outlet;
>>>>>>> #X obj 171 496 outlet;
>>>>>>> #X msg 220 147 \$1;
>>>>>>> #X obj 171 386 unpack f f;
>>>>>>> #X obj 221 463 outlet;
>>>>>>> #X text 270 462 channel;
>>>>>>> #X text 265 305 since Pd defaults lack of argument to 0 I can't 
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> of a way to get this to separate parameter 0 properly. So 0 
>>>>>>> becomes
>>>>>>> omni. Sorry!;
>>>>>>> #N canvas 518 368 751 539 1001-filter_proper_input 0;
>>>>>>> #X obj 37 19 inlet;
>>>>>>> #X obj 37 419 outlet;
>>>>>>> #X obj 37 294 glue;
>>>>>>> #X obj 85 292 nop;
>>>>>>> #X obj 37 42 route 99;
>>>>>>> #X obj 37 72 t f b;
>>>>>>> #X obj 37 330 route 38;
>>>>>>> #X msg 67 207 list;
>>>>>>> #X obj 37 376 route 6;
>>>>>>> #X obj 37 397 route 98;
>>>>>>> #X msg 37 353 \$2 \$4 \$6 \$5 \$3 \$1;
>>>>>>> #X text 251 10 Okay \, cleaner than before.;
>>>>>>> #X text 239 358 Reorder them with controllers followed by values;
>>>>>>> #X text 239 386 If the controllers route properly \, it's an 
>>>>>>> NRPN!
>>>>>>> ;
>>>>>>> #X obj 213 241 sel;
>>>>>>> #X obj 127 192 route list float;
>>>>>>> #X obj 127 216 route 98 6 38;
>>>>>>> #X obj 229 262 bang;
>>>>>>> #X text 243 43 When CC 99 comes in \, append the next four CC 
>>>>>>> controllers.
>>>>>>> [glue];
>>>>>>> #X text 274 206 Um \, this part made more sense before \, 
>>>>>>> basically
>>>>>>> make sure the [glue] doesn't fill up with crap if the CCs aren't 
>>>>>>> NRPN.
>>>>>>> ;
>>>>>>> #X connect 0 0 4 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 2 0 3 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 2 0 6 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 2 0 15 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 3 0 2 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 4 0 5 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 4 1 2 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 5 0 2 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 5 1 7 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 6 0 10 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 7 0 2 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 8 0 9 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 9 0 1 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 10 0 8 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 14 1 17 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 15 0 16 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 15 1 14 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 16 3 14 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 17 0 7 0;
>>>>>>> #X restore 120 186 pd \$0-filter_proper_input;
>>>>>>> #N canvas 0 0 568 312 1001-MSB_and_LSB 0;
>>>>>>> #X obj 79 78 unpack f f f f;
>>>>>>> #X obj 131 149 +;
>>>>>>> #X obj 79 148 +;
>>>>>>> #X obj 79 114 * 128;
>>>>>>> #X obj 131 113 * 128;
>>>>>>> #X obj 79 180 pack f f;
>>>>>>> #X obj 79 47 inlet;
>>>>>>> #X obj 79 250 outlet;
>>>>>>> #X text 218 82 All that's left is the MSB and LSB values for the 
>>>>>>> parameter
>>>>>>> \, and the parameter value. These are used to calculate the 
>>>>>>> parameter
>>>>>>> and parameter value;
>>>>>>> #X connect 0 0 3 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 0 1 2 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 0 2 4 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 0 3 1 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 1 0 5 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 2 0 5 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 3 0 2 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 4 0 1 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 5 0 7 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 6 0 0 0;
>>>>>>> #X restore 120 214 pd \$0-MSB_and_LSB;
>>>>>>> #X text 192 247 pick the right NRPN controller;
>>>>>>> #X connect 0 0 3 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 0 1 3 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 0 2 3 2;
>>>>>>> #X connect 3 0 4 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 4 0 5 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 5 0 26 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 5 1 6 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 6 0 17 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 6 0 21 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 7 0 8 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 8 0 9 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 9 0 10 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 10 0 6 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 12 0 22 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 13 0 18 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 14 0 15 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 15 0 12 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 16 0 19 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 16 1 12 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 17 0 26 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 18 0 14 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 21 0 23 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 22 0 20 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 22 1 19 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 26 0 27 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 27 0 16 0;
>>>>>>> #X restore 110 264 pd \$0-nrpnin_guts;
>>>>>>> #X text 18 95 Notes: Parameter 0 will make the object omni. This 
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> to do with Pd defaulting absent arguments to 0 Sorry!;
>>>>>>> #X text 17 71 Arguments: NRPN parameter \, MIDI channel - just 
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> [ctlin];
>>>>>>> #X obj 147 19 cnv 15 15 15 empty empty nrpnin 0 8 1 14 -262144 
>>>>>>> -99865
>>>>>>> 0;
>>>>>>> #X text 28 394 David McCallum \, 2004 - sintheta.org;
>>>>>>> #X connect 11 0 7 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 11 1 8 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 11 2 9 0;
>>>>>>> #N canvas 322 460 507 349 10;
>>>>>>> #X obj 178 12 cnv 15 15 15 empty empty nrpnout 0 8 1 14 -262144 
>>>>>>> -66577
>>>>>>> 0;
>>>>>>> #N canvas 0 0 745 436 1004-nrpnout_guts 0;
>>>>>>> #X obj 130 20 inlet;
>>>>>>> #X obj 80 150 mod 128;
>>>>>>> #X obj 155 150 div 128;
>>>>>>> #X obj 130 115 t f f;
>>>>>>> #X obj 216 20 inlet;
>>>>>>> #X obj 216 150 mod 128;
>>>>>>> #X obj 278 150 div 128;
>>>>>>> #X obj 216 115 t f f;
>>>>>>> #X obj 142 258 f;
>>>>>>> #X obj 203 258 f;
>>>>>>> #X obj 265 258 f;
>>>>>>> #X obj 80 178 t f b b b;
>>>>>>> #X obj 265 378 ctlout 99;
>>>>>>> #X obj 203 378 ctlout 98;
>>>>>>> #X obj 142 378 ctlout 6;
>>>>>>> #X obj 80 378 ctlout 38;
>>>>>>> #X obj 228 48 loadbang;
>>>>>>> #X obj 228 72 f \$1;
>>>>>>> #X obj 303 294 loadbang;
>>>>>>> #X obj 289 344 sel 0;
>>>>>>> #X obj 289 320 f \$2;
>>>>>>> #X obj 289 274 inlet;
>>>>>>> #X text 354 316 because absent arguments in Pd default to 0 I 
>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>> parse parameter 0 properly. So zero becomes omni. Yikes!;
>>>>>>> #X connect 0 0 3 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 1 0 11 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 2 0 8 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 3 0 1 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 3 1 2 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 4 0 7 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 5 0 9 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 6 0 10 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 7 0 5 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 7 1 6 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 8 0 14 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 9 0 13 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 10 0 12 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 11 0 15 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 11 1 8 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 11 2 9 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 11 3 10 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 16 0 17 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 17 0 7 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 18 0 20 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 19 1 12 2;
>>>>>>> #X connect 19 1 13 2;
>>>>>>> #X connect 19 1 14 2;
>>>>>>> #X connect 19 1 15 2;
>>>>>>> #X connect 20 0 19 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 21 0 20 0;
>>>>>>> #X restore 141 246 pd \$0-nrpnout_guts;
>>>>>>> #X obj 141 170 inlet;
>>>>>>> #X obj 201 197 inlet;
>>>>>>> #X obj 262 224 inlet;
>>>>>>> #X text 190 165 value;
>>>>>>> #X text 299 224 channel;
>>>>>>> #X text 242 194 parameter;
>>>>>>> #X text 51 68 Arguments: NRPN parameter \, MIDI channel - just 
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> [ctlout];
>>>>>>> #X text 49 97 Notes: funny stuff with parameter 0 Has to do with 
>>>>>>> Pd
>>>>>>> defaulting absent arguments to 0 Just avoid 0;
>>>>>>> #X text 87 306 David McCallum \, 2004 - sintheta.org;
>>>>>>> #X connect 2 0 1 0;
>>>>>>> #X connect 3 0 1 1;
>>>>>>> #X connect 4 0 1 2;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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