[PD] 14bit midi. nrpn and ctlin
Martin Peach
martinrp at vax2.concordia.ca
Thu Jul 7 21:43:05 CEST 2005
So it's a USB(ugh!) driver problem then...why am I not surprised...
Nicholas Ward wrote:
> Okay getting somewhere,
> It works fine if I plug the bcf2000 into my midi interface with midi
> cables (why didnt i try that earlier!).
> It doesnt work for NRPN if i use the USB connection to connect the
> BCF2000 directly to the computer.
> hmmmm? buffers?
>
>
>
> On 7 Jul 2005, at 19:41, Martin Peach wrote:
>
>> What if you send it the four messages manually in sequence instead of
>> all at once? e.g. make a patch that uses ctlout and plug your MIDI
>> out to your MIDI in.
>> All I can think of is the usual culprits: buffer overflow or running
>> status, neither of which should be a problem with recent pd versions.
>> Martin
>>
>> Nicholas Ward wrote:
>>
>>> yep,
>>> Thats what i did.
>>> it prints nothing for an nrpn and fine for ctrlin and yet i can see
>>> the nrpn data fine in midi monitor!
>>> baffling
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7 Jul 2005, at 18:56, Martin Peach wrote:
>>>
>>>> The source code for the ctlin object is in s_midi.c and x_midi.c,
>>>> all it does is list whatever cc message comes its way.
>>>> There is no difference between cc98 and cc3 as far as [ctlin] is
>>>> concerned. No other filtering is done inside pd.
>>>> If you open the nrpnin abstraction that David attached you'll see
>>>> that it contains a [ctlin] and is otherwise made of standard pd
>>>> objects that all work on OSX.
>>>> I would make a simple patch like this (the first part of the
>>>> $0-nrpnin-guts subpatch):
>>>> [ctlin]
>>>> | | |
>>>> [pack f f f]
>>>> |
>>>> [print]
>>>> ...and have a look at what it prints.
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> Nicholas Ward wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No the abstraction is fine. Its ctlin thats the problem.. NRPNs
>>>>> are (as far as i understand) just four controller messages in a
>>>>> row. cc99 , cc98, specifying the parameter to affect and cc6 and
>>>>> cc38 specifying the value. looking at plumstone output (a java
>>>>> extension for OS X with a tester app that shows incoming midi) I
>>>>> see this is the case. e.g.
>>>>>
>>>>> time ch cc data
>>>>> 9567000 [11:4 99 0]
>>>>> 9567000 [11:4 98 4]
>>>>> 9567000 [11:4 6 10]
>>>>> 9567000 [11:4 38 27]
>>>>>
>>>>> so thats why i dont see why ctlin has a problem with them. If i
>>>>> send a cc99 message to ctlin it has no problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is nrpn just not supported by ctlin on os x?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7 Jul 2005, at 17:01, Martin Peach wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Checking http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tech/midispec/nrpn.htm it
>>>>>> seems that nrpns _are_ standard cc messages: they're 98 and 99.
>>>>>> If your [ctlin] outputs those then the problem is with the nrpn
>>>>>> abstraction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nicholas Ward wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>>> The problem is with ctlin. I attached a print to a ctlin. Loads
>>>>>>> of numbers for standard cc messages. Not a sausage for nrpn!
>>>>>>> Any other ideas out there?
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7 Jul 2005, at 06:32, David NG McCallum wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nick,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've actually updated the abstractions but haven't bothered to
>>>>>>>> upload
>>>>>>>> them (I think). I've attached them here, hope no one minds. The
>>>>>>>> logic
>>>>>>>> hasn't changed at all, it's just a little more elegant (maybe).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not sure about your problem, though... Are you having problems
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> [nrpnin], or just getting *any* data from [ctlin] when using
>>>>>>>> the nrpn
>>>>>>>> controllers?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let me know if you have problems with the newer [nrpnin]. I've
>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>> actually tested them on nrpn hardware. I still have no idea why
>>>>>>>> I spent
>>>>>>>> the time working on them. :) But I've been told they work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cheers,
>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>> __ _ _ _ _ __ ___ _ ___ __ _ _ _ ____ __
>>>>>>>> Music wants to be free http://sintheta.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nicholas Ward wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>> Im trying to get 14bit midi messages into pd. This was
>>>>>>>>> discussed a few
>>>>>>>>> months ago and I've got an abstraction nrpnin to parse the
>>>>>>>>> output from
>>>>>>>>> a ctlin from David McCallum's site
>>>>>>>>> http://www.mentalfloss.ca/sintheta/html/downloads.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Im using a behringer bcf2000 controller.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The problem is Ctlin doesnt output anything if i send an nrpn
>>>>>>>>> message.
>>>>>>>>> It happily works for standard CC. Is this normal? Im on os x
>>>>>>>>> 10.3.9 and
>>>>>>>>> pd.app 0.38-4RC0.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any ideas ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nicky
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ive installed midi monitor and can see that the bcf is
>>>>>>>>> outputting the
>>>>>>>>> midi message fine, below is the output for one complete message.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 01:37:22.548 From BCF2000 Control 5 Non-Registered
>>>>>>>>> Parameter
>>>>>>>>> MSB 0
>>>>>>>>> 01:37:22.548 From BCF2000 Control 5 Non-Registered
>>>>>>>>> Parameter
>>>>>>>>> LSB 10
>>>>>>>>> 01:37:22.548 From BCF2000 Control 5 Data Entry
>>>>>>>>> (coarse) 3
>>>>>>>>> 01:37:22.548 From BCF2000 Control 5 Data Entry
>>>>>>>>> (fine) 105
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> #N canvas 11 85 454 460 10;
>>>>>>>> #X text 116 168 Data comes in as:;
>>>>>>>> #X text 115 187 Parameter MSB: Ctl 99;
>>>>>>>> #X text 115 199 Parameter LSB: Ctl 98;
>>>>>>>> #X text 114 212 Value MSB: Ctl 6;
>>>>>>>> #X text 114 224 Value LSB: Ctl 38;
>>>>>>>> #X text 156 337 value;
>>>>>>>> #X text 214 316 parameter;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 110 335 outlet;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 167 313 outlet;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 224 290 outlet;
>>>>>>>> #X text 273 289 channel;
>>>>>>>> #N canvas 458 0 656 592 1001-nrpnin_guts 0;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 120 26 ctlin;
>>>>>>>> #X text 166 530 value;
>>>>>>>> #X text 220 499 parameter;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 120 49 pack f f f;
>>>>>>>> #X msg 120 72 \$3 \$2 \$1;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 120 97 route \$2;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 171 120 spigot;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 208 28 loadbang;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 208 49 f \$2;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 208 70 sel 0;
>>>>>>>> #X msg 208 92 1;
>>>>>>>> #X text 257 60 if no midi channel specified \, omni;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 171 363 spigot;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 208 275 loadbang;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 208 317 sel 0;
>>>>>>>> #X msg 208 339 1;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 120 249 route \$1;
>>>>>>>> #X msg 171 147 \$2 \$3;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 208 296 f \$1;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 120 528 outlet;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 171 496 outlet;
>>>>>>>> #X msg 220 147 \$1;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 171 386 unpack f f;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 221 463 outlet;
>>>>>>>> #X text 270 462 channel;
>>>>>>>> #X text 265 305 since Pd defaults lack of argument to 0 I can't
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> of a way to get this to separate parameter 0 properly. So 0
>>>>>>>> becomes
>>>>>>>> omni. Sorry!;
>>>>>>>> #N canvas 518 368 751 539 1001-filter_proper_input 0;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 37 19 inlet;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 37 419 outlet;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 37 294 glue;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 85 292 nop;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 37 42 route 99;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 37 72 t f b;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 37 330 route 38;
>>>>>>>> #X msg 67 207 list;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 37 376 route 6;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 37 397 route 98;
>>>>>>>> #X msg 37 353 \$2 \$4 \$6 \$5 \$3 \$1;
>>>>>>>> #X text 251 10 Okay \, cleaner than before.;
>>>>>>>> #X text 239 358 Reorder them with controllers followed by values;
>>>>>>>> #X text 239 386 If the controllers route properly \, it's an NRPN!
>>>>>>>> ;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 213 241 sel;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 127 192 route list float;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 127 216 route 98 6 38;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 229 262 bang;
>>>>>>>> #X text 243 43 When CC 99 comes in \, append the next four CC
>>>>>>>> controllers.
>>>>>>>> [glue];
>>>>>>>> #X text 274 206 Um \, this part made more sense before \,
>>>>>>>> basically
>>>>>>>> make sure the [glue] doesn't fill up with crap if the CCs
>>>>>>>> aren't NRPN.
>>>>>>>> ;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 0 0 4 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 2 0 3 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 2 0 6 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 2 0 15 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 3 0 2 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 4 0 5 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 4 1 2 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 5 0 2 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 5 1 7 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 6 0 10 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 7 0 2 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 8 0 9 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 9 0 1 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 10 0 8 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 14 1 17 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 15 0 16 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 15 1 14 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 16 3 14 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 17 0 7 0;
>>>>>>>> #X restore 120 186 pd \$0-filter_proper_input;
>>>>>>>> #N canvas 0 0 568 312 1001-MSB_and_LSB 0;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 79 78 unpack f f f f;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 131 149 +;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 79 148 +;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 79 114 * 128;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 131 113 * 128;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 79 180 pack f f;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 79 47 inlet;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 79 250 outlet;
>>>>>>>> #X text 218 82 All that's left is the MSB and LSB values for
>>>>>>>> the parameter
>>>>>>>> \, and the parameter value. These are used to calculate the
>>>>>>>> parameter
>>>>>>>> and parameter value;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 0 0 3 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 0 1 2 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 0 2 4 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 0 3 1 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 1 0 5 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 2 0 5 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 3 0 2 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 4 0 1 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 5 0 7 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 6 0 0 0;
>>>>>>>> #X restore 120 214 pd \$0-MSB_and_LSB;
>>>>>>>> #X text 192 247 pick the right NRPN controller;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 0 0 3 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 0 1 3 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 0 2 3 2;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 3 0 4 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 4 0 5 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 5 0 26 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 5 1 6 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 6 0 17 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 6 0 21 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 7 0 8 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 8 0 9 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 9 0 10 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 10 0 6 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 12 0 22 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 13 0 18 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 14 0 15 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 15 0 12 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 16 0 19 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 16 1 12 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 17 0 26 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 18 0 14 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 21 0 23 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 22 0 20 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 22 1 19 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 26 0 27 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 27 0 16 0;
>>>>>>>> #X restore 110 264 pd \$0-nrpnin_guts;
>>>>>>>> #X text 18 95 Notes: Parameter 0 will make the object omni.
>>>>>>>> This has
>>>>>>>> to do with Pd defaulting absent arguments to 0 Sorry!;
>>>>>>>> #X text 17 71 Arguments: NRPN parameter \, MIDI channel - just
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> [ctlin];
>>>>>>>> #X obj 147 19 cnv 15 15 15 empty empty nrpnin 0 8 1 14 -262144
>>>>>>>> -99865
>>>>>>>> 0;
>>>>>>>> #X text 28 394 David McCallum \, 2004 - sintheta.org;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 11 0 7 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 11 1 8 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 11 2 9 0;
>>>>>>>> #N canvas 322 460 507 349 10;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 178 12 cnv 15 15 15 empty empty nrpnout 0 8 1 14 -262144
>>>>>>>> -66577
>>>>>>>> 0;
>>>>>>>> #N canvas 0 0 745 436 1004-nrpnout_guts 0;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 130 20 inlet;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 80 150 mod 128;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 155 150 div 128;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 130 115 t f f;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 216 20 inlet;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 216 150 mod 128;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 278 150 div 128;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 216 115 t f f;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 142 258 f;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 203 258 f;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 265 258 f;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 80 178 t f b b b;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 265 378 ctlout 99;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 203 378 ctlout 98;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 142 378 ctlout 6;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 80 378 ctlout 38;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 228 48 loadbang;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 228 72 f \$1;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 303 294 loadbang;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 289 344 sel 0;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 289 320 f \$2;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 289 274 inlet;
>>>>>>>> #X text 354 316 because absent arguments in Pd default to 0 I
>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>> parse parameter 0 properly. So zero becomes omni. Yikes!;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 0 0 3 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 1 0 11 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 2 0 8 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 3 0 1 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 3 1 2 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 4 0 7 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 5 0 9 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 6 0 10 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 7 0 5 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 7 1 6 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 8 0 14 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 9 0 13 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 10 0 12 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 11 0 15 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 11 1 8 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 11 2 9 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 11 3 10 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 16 0 17 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 17 0 7 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 18 0 20 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 19 1 12 2;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 19 1 13 2;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 19 1 14 2;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 19 1 15 2;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 20 0 19 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 21 0 20 0;
>>>>>>>> #X restore 141 246 pd \$0-nrpnout_guts;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 141 170 inlet;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 201 197 inlet;
>>>>>>>> #X obj 262 224 inlet;
>>>>>>>> #X text 190 165 value;
>>>>>>>> #X text 299 224 channel;
>>>>>>>> #X text 242 194 parameter;
>>>>>>>> #X text 51 68 Arguments: NRPN parameter \, MIDI channel - just
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> [ctlout];
>>>>>>>> #X text 49 97 Notes: funny stuff with parameter 0 Has to do
>>>>>>>> with Pd
>>>>>>>> defaulting absent arguments to 0 Just avoid 0;
>>>>>>>> #X text 87 306 David McCallum \, 2004 - sintheta.org;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 2 0 1 0;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 3 0 1 1;
>>>>>>>> #X connect 4 0 1 2;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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