[PD] Piksel'05

Wed Aug 17 14:17:49 CEST 2005

honestly I would really love to bring only free software (damn, my
nvidia driver would break the rules anyhow...) to piksel.

Too bad my AMD64 & Duron machines are.... Desktops!!!! (not little ones
at that). I can't transport such large heavy things all the way from
Canada. If I had a linux laptop I would bring that. I don't own such a
thing.

For the recond this powerbook of "mine" is on loan from the SAT. I only
"own" linux machines.

I do think you bring up some great points about access to technology and
this crazy drive for the newest and fastest. I bought the new machine
for installation projects so I could leave my duron at home to do
everything normal (like typing this email).

I could not find a shuttle with enough drive bays for my future
disk-arrays...

The SAT did some work on getting a "tele-presence" application really
working well using an openGL version of xdvshow, using a low latency
kernel and all. It took a year of development for a normal machine to
stream one DV copy (DVTS) and receive a second and display it with
little packet loss and latency.

We REALLY do need better faster decoders/encoders in linux... I agree.

www.tot.sat.qc.ca for more info on the research project.

What is/are the geurilla approach(s) to increase linux visibility? Other
than just using it.. (all my recent installations are linux powered!)

Ok I'm done with the cross-posting. For all those interested in
continuing more messages are on the piksel mailinglist (piksel at bek.no).

b>

Matthijs van Henten wrote:
> I wish to react to the short discussion about bringing your mac to
> piksel or not :)
> I want to ask you, PLEASE drag along your your athlons 800 instead of
> your powerbook this time ( I brought a duron 700 pc last year and did my
> performance on it :) )
>
> Here's my motivation about it, read it if you're interested.
>
> I wrote this up in dutch. I am not entirely happy about my english,
> therefore I'll be sending the dutch version at the bottom of this mail,
> for any of you dutch guys out there. The english is shorter, tho.
>
> here it is:
>
> A fast and free dv-decoder is something every artist in the linux
> community could use. It is one of those things that keeps linux as an
> adult platform for art and media one step behind the commercially
> available alternatives.
> Linux as such a platform needs more attention in order to make the
> usergroup, and with a usergroup the incentive ( or reward, or prestige,
> or eternal fame) for developers bigger in order to force a breaktrough
> these sort of issues.
>
> If this doesn't happen, linux will live a marginal existence as a
> multimedia platform and implicitly as a platform for art.
> The GNU started out by making free tools for developers. The emphasis
> has shifted towards free available user tools. As Stallman once said, a
> compiler is not enough. You also need an editor, a build system, a
> debugger and a whole range of tools to be comfortable as a developer
> with the platform. All of these things wich the free software has by now.
> This is just as valid, and maybe even more, to say this about end users,
> and in special the typical group of end users that wish to produce
> creatively.
> The use of computers has improved the tools to produce creative output
> immensely, and by doing so, inspired and stimulated the computer
> industry to improve.
> This kind of interaction ( or, translated from dutch: cross-conception)
> could exist with the developers in the opensource community( well it
> already does but maybe not enough) as well. And this might be very
> valuable for both worlds.
> These are strong arguments for me to (keep) using linux, even if it puts
> me into a vurnerable position as an artist sometimes, since I have to
> rely on the help of developers sometimes, for even the most trival issues.
> This also makes me bump into a lot of mis-understanding from my fellow
> artists. An artist, in the view of many, chooses the most optimal means
> to create his 'image' ( art, goal, idea). I think this is an
> opportunistic way of thinking that is ( inherent |  part of the way we)
> think (in | about) art in the post-modern (art | world). ( <- crist I'm
> happy I'm not a translator). Nevertheless, there are advantages not to
> think in such a way, somtimes, even within art.
> Collaborations sometimes create better stuff then simply choosing the
> most opportunistic option at the time.
> I see myself as a pioneer - I mean without trying to make anything
> better out of myself than I am - and as a Young Artist I like trying to
> improve something about the world.
> Piksel as a festival is even more pioneering, and it is needed badly.
> This is why I think that a little puritanism is not wrong on a festival
> like piksel. It'll help to create an athmosphere where we can look for
> shared solutions, where we find the important limitations and
> bottlenecks for the artistic process, and where nobody has to be ashamed
> for a badly edited movie, since we simply don't have adobe premiere,
> quicktime, macromedia flash or final cut pro.
>
> So hereby I ask everyone coming, to *especially* bring their old junk,
> and not their fast OSX or MSOS to piksel, to discuss about free software
> as a creative platform.
> Not out because of dogma's, and especially not against the live and let
> die of LGPL, but out of pure practical reasons.
> Come on, and show us.
>
> Cheers,
> Matthijs.
>
> ---- dutch stuff below
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Een snelle en vrije dv-decoder is wat iedere kunstenaar in de linux
> gemeenschap zou kunnen gebruiken. Het is een van die dingen die linux
> als volwassen media en kunst platform vaak een stap doet achterlopen op
> de commercieel beschikbare alternatieven. Er zal dus meer aandacht voor
> linux als dit platform moeten komen, om de groep gebruikers, en zo de
> uitdaging( en beloning, en prestige, en eeuwige roem) naar ontwikkelaars
> toe groter te kunnen maken, en een doorbraak te forceren in dit soort
> kwesties.
>
> Als zoiets niet gebeurt, zal linux als multimediaal platform, en dus als
> platform voor de kunst een marginaal bestaan moeten leiden. De GNU begon
> ooit met het maken van vrij beschikbaar gereedschap voor ontwikkelaars.
> De zwaarte is inmiddels verschoven naar vrij beschikbare gebruikers
> gereedschappen, zoals rijke grafische omgevingen, complete burea
> applicaties, beeld bewerkings software, software om video en geluid mee
> af te spelen, en rijke communicatie mogelijkheden. Zoals Stallman zelf
> al eens aangaf, een compiler is niet genoeg. Je hebt ook een debugger
> nodig, een editor, een build systeem, een hele berg van gereedscappen om
> je als ontwikkelaar comfortabel te voelen met het platform. al deze
> dingen heeft vrije software inmiddels.
>
> Dit geld net zo hard, en misschien wel meer voor eindgebruikers, en in
> het bijzonder voor de typische eindgebruikers die willen komen tot een
> creatief product. Het gebruik van computers heeft voor deze laatste
> groep gebruikers een ongeevenaaarde hoeveelheid mogelijkheden gecreeerd
> om zich te kunnen uiten, en daarmee de computer industrie vele impulsen
> gegeven om zichzelf telkens weer te verbeteren, en deze wisselwerking
> zou het ook kunnen aangaan met de wereld van de vrije software. Een
> kruisbestuiving die voor beide groepen wel eens hele interessante
> voordelen zou kunnen hebben.
>
> Dit is voor mij een belangrijke reden om linux te gebruiken, ook al sta
> ik als artiest in een zeer kwetsbare positie, omdat ik telkens weer de
> hulp moet inroepen van de ontwikkelaars voor de soms meest onzinnige
> dingen.
> Daarom blijf ik helaas bij mijn mede artiesten op onbegrip stuiten. Een
> kunstenaar kiest toch in de ogen van velen de optimale middelen om zijn
> beeld te bereiken. Ik denk dat dat een opportunistische manier van
> denken is die inherent is aan de opvattingen in de post-moderne kunst.
> Toch zijn er de voordelen om soms niet zo te denken, ook binnen kunst,
> en leveren samenwerkingsverbanden soms misschien wel meer op dan het
> kiezen voor dat wat de meest logische optie op het moment lijkt.
>
> Ik zie mezelf dan ook als een pioneer, zonder mezelf daarbij op de borst
> te willen kloppen. Ik ben als beginnend kunstenaar niet helemaal vies
> van het gevoel de wereld te willen verbeteren. Het piksel festival
> pionieerd nogmeer en dat is hard nodig.
>
> Daarom ben ik de mening toegedaan, dat wat puritanisme niet verkeerd is
> op een festival als piksel.
> Het helpt om een atmosfeer te creeeren waarin naar oplossingen gezocht
> wordt, waarin de beperkingen worden gevonden, en waar niemand zich hoefd
> te schamen voor een filmpje dat klungelig geedit moet worden omdat we nu
> eenmaal niet beschikken over adobe premiere, quicktime, macromedia flash
> of final cut pro.
>
> Daarom wil ik bij deze een oproep plaatsen, om vooral OSX en MSOS op
> piksel dit keer thuis te laten, en dan desnoods op onze oude machines en
> zonder quicktime te discussieeren over vrije software als creatief
> platform.
> Dus niet vanuit een stomzinnig dogma, en al helemaal niet tegen het
> gevoel van 'live and let live' van de LGPL in, maar vanuit praktische
> redenen. come on, and show us.
>
> B. Bogart wrote:
>
>> Hey Marc,
>>
>> pixelTANGO is actually not (at all) optimized for OSX, but it does so
>> happen that the starting design principal (high-quality video mixing) is
>> much more optimized in Gem on OSX. Why? DV decoding libs, and the magic
>> catch-all quicktime.
>>
>> PixelTANGO is actually not at all optimized, but is really a set of
>> interfaces. Its first task was video performance and so the OSX was
>> chosen, it was developed on OSX simply because my linux machine was far
>> to slow to be of any use working with DV files (Duron 800).
>>
>> But this is a digression.
>>
>> The bottom line is that everything in pixelTANGO is free and
>> multi-platform BUT those non-free components that get linked with Gem on
>> OSX make it perform much better for certain operations. We just need
>> ffmpeg (or something) function as well as quicktime and decoders that
>> are very fast and optimized...
>>
>> Say anyone know of anyone using the GPU to do some decoding work with
>> pixelShaders?
>>
>> Free software on any OS can't help but promote free software.
>>
>> B.
>>
>> PS: Showing the weaknesses of one OS in one respect is not the same as
>> promoting the alternative OSs.
>>
>> Marc Lavallée wrote:
>>
>>> It's easy: LGPL software is free, but can be used or linked with
>>> non-free
>>> software. The first letter is "L", for "Lesser", because it protects
>>> less;
>>> its only purpose is to distribute libraries that might become de-facto
>>> standards.
>>>
>>> In the case of applications, hybrids don't only promote the free
>>> parts; for
>>> example, pixelTango is optimised for OSX because it is mainly
>>> developed on
>>> OSX, so it promotes OSX more than GNU/Linux. But I promote pixelTango to
>>> OSX users when I can, hoping they might eventually want use a free OS.
>>>
>>> Happy Piksel!
>>> --
>>> Marc
>>>
>>> Le 16 Août 2005 11:45, B. Bogart a écrit :
>>>
>>>> If it was so easy to draw the line between free and non-free then
>>>> things
>>>> like the LGPL would not have any purpose. I think we're going to
>>>> have to
>>>> deal with commercial/free hybrids, which is not at all bad as long as
>>>> the hybrids highlight and promote the free parts...
>>>>
>>>> Seems like Darwin and Apple are not playing nice lately.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I'm bringing the powerbook to piksel, and not lugging my
>>>> AMD64/Debian mobo.
>>>>
>>>> B.
>>>>
>>>> Marc Lavallée wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 16 Août 2005 11:15, 220hex a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Monday 15 August 2005 01:20, skrev Yves Degoyon:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mathieu Bouchard a écrit :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey, anyone here going to Piksel'05 ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't forget they're extremists and can't stand any windows users ))
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> total bollocks ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we might well be extremists, but windows is accepted as well as
>>>>>> OSX, as
>>>>>> long as the user-space apps is open-source.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It'a getting difficult to draw a line between the user-space apps and
>>>>> the root-space os. Using "open source" (I prefer the term free) on
>>>>> non-free platforms is one way to promote freedom for users, but it's
>>>>> far from enough. The first words on the Piksel web site are:
>>>>> "Piksel is a yearly event for artists and developers working
>>>>> with Free Libre and Open Source Software (FLOSS) for realtime
>>>>> processing of video and sound."  Since Windows and OSX are non-free
>>>>> softwares, the Piksel people should logically be extreme extremists...
>>>>> ;-)
>>>>> --
>>>>> Marc
>>>>>
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