[PD] Piksel'05

cyrille henry cyrille.henry at la-kitchen.fr
Wed Aug 17 15:44:40 CEST 2005



B. Bogart a écrit :
> honestly I would really love to bring only free software (damn, my
> nvidia driver would break the rules anyhow...) to piksel.
haha,
this is an important point : how many people at pixel will use free driver?
moreover : and how many people will use free HARDWARE?
i don't think there is a lot's of diference between hardware and 
software : it's just an other job, but same problematic.

using free software and free OS is just the BEGGINING.
you can't be happy only because you run linux.

cyrille


> 
> Too bad my AMD64 & Duron machines are.... Desktops!!!! (not little ones
> at that). I can't transport such large heavy things all the way from
> Canada. If I had a linux laptop I would bring that. I don't own such a
> thing.
> 
> For the recond this powerbook of "mine" is on loan from the SAT. I only
> "own" linux machines.
> 
> I do think you bring up some great points about access to technology and
> this crazy drive for the newest and fastest. I bought the new machine
> for installation projects so I could leave my duron at home to do
> everything normal (like typing this email).
> 
> I could not find a shuttle with enough drive bays for my future
> disk-arrays...
> 
> The SAT did some work on getting a "tele-presence" application really
> working well using an openGL version of xdvshow, using a low latency
> kernel and all. It took a year of development for a normal machine to
> stream one DV copy (DVTS) and receive a second and display it with
> little packet loss and latency.
> 
> We REALLY do need better faster decoders/encoders in linux... I agree.
> 
> www.tot.sat.qc.ca for more info on the research project.
> 
> What is/are the geurilla approach(s) to increase linux visibility? Other
> than just using it.. (all my recent installations are linux powered!)
> 
> Ok I'm done with the cross-posting. For all those interested in
> continuing more messages are on the piksel mailinglist (piksel at bek.no).
> 
> b>
> 
> 
> Matthijs van Henten wrote:
> 
>> I wish to react to the short discussion about bringing your mac to
>> piksel or not :)
>> I want to ask you, PLEASE drag along your your athlons 800 instead of
>> your powerbook this time ( I brought a duron 700 pc last year and did my
>> performance on it :) )
>>
>> Here's my motivation about it, read it if you're interested.
>>
>> I wrote this up in dutch. I am not entirely happy about my english,
>> therefore I'll be sending the dutch version at the bottom of this mail,
>> for any of you dutch guys out there. The english is shorter, tho.
>>
>> here it is:
>>
>> A fast and free dv-decoder is something every artist in the linux
>> community could use. It is one of those things that keeps linux as an
>> adult platform for art and media one step behind the commercially
>> available alternatives.
>> Linux as such a platform needs more attention in order to make the
>> usergroup, and with a usergroup the incentive ( or reward, or prestige,
>> or eternal fame) for developers bigger in order to force a breaktrough
>> these sort of issues.
>>
>> If this doesn't happen, linux will live a marginal existence as a
>> multimedia platform and implicitly as a platform for art.
>> The GNU started out by making free tools for developers. The emphasis
>> has shifted towards free available user tools. As Stallman once said, a
>> compiler is not enough. You also need an editor, a build system, a
>> debugger and a whole range of tools to be comfortable as a developer
>> with the platform. All of these things wich the free software has by now.
>> This is just as valid, and maybe even more, to say this about end users,
>> and in special the typical group of end users that wish to produce
>> creatively.
>> The use of computers has improved the tools to produce creative output
>> immensely, and by doing so, inspired and stimulated the computer
>> industry to improve.
>> This kind of interaction ( or, translated from dutch: cross-conception)
>> could exist with the developers in the opensource community( well it
>> already does but maybe not enough) as well. And this might be very
>> valuable for both worlds.
>> These are strong arguments for me to (keep) using linux, even if it puts
>> me into a vurnerable position as an artist sometimes, since I have to
>> rely on the help of developers sometimes, for even the most trival 
>> issues.
>> This also makes me bump into a lot of mis-understanding from my fellow
>> artists. An artist, in the view of many, chooses the most optimal means
>> to create his 'image' ( art, goal, idea). I think this is an
>> opportunistic way of thinking that is ( inherent |  part of the way we)
>> think (in | about) art in the post-modern (art | world). ( <- crist I'm
>> happy I'm not a translator). Nevertheless, there are advantages not to
>> think in such a way, somtimes, even within art.
>> Collaborations sometimes create better stuff then simply choosing the
>> most opportunistic option at the time.
>> I see myself as a pioneer - I mean without trying to make anything
>> better out of myself than I am - and as a Young Artist I like trying to
>> improve something about the world.
>> Piksel as a festival is even more pioneering, and it is needed badly.
>> This is why I think that a little puritanism is not wrong on a festival
>> like piksel. It'll help to create an athmosphere where we can look for
>> shared solutions, where we find the important limitations and
>> bottlenecks for the artistic process, and where nobody has to be ashamed
>> for a badly edited movie, since we simply don't have adobe premiere,
>> quicktime, macromedia flash or final cut pro.
>>
>> So hereby I ask everyone coming, to *especially* bring their old junk,
>> and not their fast OSX or MSOS to piksel, to discuss about free software
>> as a creative platform.
>> Not out because of dogma's, and especially not against the live and let
>> die of LGPL, but out of pure practical reasons.
>> Come on, and show us.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Matthijs.
>>
>> ---- dutch stuff below
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Een snelle en vrije dv-decoder is wat iedere kunstenaar in de linux
>> gemeenschap zou kunnen gebruiken. Het is een van die dingen die linux
>> als volwassen media en kunst platform vaak een stap doet achterlopen op
>> de commercieel beschikbare alternatieven. Er zal dus meer aandacht voor
>> linux als dit platform moeten komen, om de groep gebruikers, en zo de
>> uitdaging( en beloning, en prestige, en eeuwige roem) naar ontwikkelaars
>> toe groter te kunnen maken, en een doorbraak te forceren in dit soort
>> kwesties.
>>
>> Als zoiets niet gebeurt, zal linux als multimediaal platform, en dus als
>> platform voor de kunst een marginaal bestaan moeten leiden. De GNU begon
>> ooit met het maken van vrij beschikbaar gereedschap voor ontwikkelaars.
>> De zwaarte is inmiddels verschoven naar vrij beschikbare gebruikers
>> gereedschappen, zoals rijke grafische omgevingen, complete burea
>> applicaties, beeld bewerkings software, software om video en geluid mee
>> af te spelen, en rijke communicatie mogelijkheden. Zoals Stallman zelf
>> al eens aangaf, een compiler is niet genoeg. Je hebt ook een debugger
>> nodig, een editor, een build systeem, een hele berg van gereedscappen om
>> je als ontwikkelaar comfortabel te voelen met het platform. al deze
>> dingen heeft vrije software inmiddels.
>>
>> Dit geld net zo hard, en misschien wel meer voor eindgebruikers, en in
>> het bijzonder voor de typische eindgebruikers die willen komen tot een
>> creatief product. Het gebruik van computers heeft voor deze laatste
>> groep gebruikers een ongeevenaaarde hoeveelheid mogelijkheden gecreeerd
>> om zich te kunnen uiten, en daarmee de computer industrie vele impulsen
>> gegeven om zichzelf telkens weer te verbeteren, en deze wisselwerking
>> zou het ook kunnen aangaan met de wereld van de vrije software. Een
>> kruisbestuiving die voor beide groepen wel eens hele interessante
>> voordelen zou kunnen hebben.
>>
>> Dit is voor mij een belangrijke reden om linux te gebruiken, ook al sta
>> ik als artiest in een zeer kwetsbare positie, omdat ik telkens weer de
>> hulp moet inroepen van de ontwikkelaars voor de soms meest onzinnige
>> dingen.
>> Daarom blijf ik helaas bij mijn mede artiesten op onbegrip stuiten. Een
>> kunstenaar kiest toch in de ogen van velen de optimale middelen om zijn
>> beeld te bereiken. Ik denk dat dat een opportunistische manier van
>> denken is die inherent is aan de opvattingen in de post-moderne kunst.
>> Toch zijn er de voordelen om soms niet zo te denken, ook binnen kunst,
>> en leveren samenwerkingsverbanden soms misschien wel meer op dan het
>> kiezen voor dat wat de meest logische optie op het moment lijkt.
>>
>> Ik zie mezelf dan ook als een pioneer, zonder mezelf daarbij op de borst
>> te willen kloppen. Ik ben als beginnend kunstenaar niet helemaal vies
>> van het gevoel de wereld te willen verbeteren. Het piksel festival
>> pionieerd nogmeer en dat is hard nodig.
>>
>> Daarom ben ik de mening toegedaan, dat wat puritanisme niet verkeerd is
>> op een festival als piksel.
>> Het helpt om een atmosfeer te creeeren waarin naar oplossingen gezocht
>> wordt, waarin de beperkingen worden gevonden, en waar niemand zich hoefd
>> te schamen voor een filmpje dat klungelig geedit moet worden omdat we nu
>> eenmaal niet beschikken over adobe premiere, quicktime, macromedia flash
>> of final cut pro.
>>
>> Daarom wil ik bij deze een oproep plaatsen, om vooral OSX en MSOS op
>> piksel dit keer thuis te laten, en dan desnoods op onze oude machines en
>> zonder quicktime te discussieeren over vrije software als creatief
>> platform.
>> Dus niet vanuit een stomzinnig dogma, en al helemaal niet tegen het
>> gevoel van 'live and let live' van de LGPL in, maar vanuit praktische
>> redenen. come on, and show us.
>>
>> B. Bogart wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Marc,
>>>
>>> pixelTANGO is actually not (at all) optimized for OSX, but it does so
>>> happen that the starting design principal (high-quality video mixing) is
>>> much more optimized in Gem on OSX. Why? DV decoding libs, and the magic
>>> catch-all quicktime.
>>>
>>> PixelTANGO is actually not at all optimized, but is really a set of
>>> interfaces. Its first task was video performance and so the OSX was
>>> chosen, it was developed on OSX simply because my linux machine was far
>>> to slow to be of any use working with DV files (Duron 800).
>>>
>>> But this is a digression.
>>>
>>> The bottom line is that everything in pixelTANGO is free and
>>> multi-platform BUT those non-free components that get linked with Gem on
>>> OSX make it perform much better for certain operations. We just need
>>> ffmpeg (or something) function as well as quicktime and decoders that
>>> are very fast and optimized...
>>>
>>> Say anyone know of anyone using the GPU to do some decoding work with
>>> pixelShaders?
>>>
>>> Free software on any OS can't help but promote free software.
>>>
>>> B.
>>>
>>> PS: Showing the weaknesses of one OS in one respect is not the same as
>>> promoting the alternative OSs.
>>>
>>> Marc Lavallée wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's easy: LGPL software is free, but can be used or linked with
>>>> non-free
>>>> software. The first letter is "L", for "Lesser", because it protects
>>>> less;
>>>> its only purpose is to distribute libraries that might become de-facto
>>>> standards.
>>>>
>>>> In the case of applications, hybrids don't only promote the free
>>>> parts; for
>>>> example, pixelTango is optimised for OSX because it is mainly
>>>> developed on
>>>> OSX, so it promotes OSX more than GNU/Linux. But I promote 
>>>> pixelTango to
>>>> OSX users when I can, hoping they might eventually want use a free OS.
>>>>
>>>> Happy Piksel!
>>>> -- 
>>>> Marc
>>>>
>>>> Le 16 Août 2005 11:45, B. Bogart a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> If it was so easy to draw the line between free and non-free then
>>>>> things
>>>>> like the LGPL would not have any purpose. I think we're going to
>>>>> have to
>>>>> deal with commercial/free hybrids, which is not at all bad as long as
>>>>> the hybrids highlight and promote the free parts...
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems like Darwin and Apple are not playing nice lately.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I'm bringing the powerbook to piksel, and not lugging my
>>>>> AMD64/Debian mobo.
>>>>>
>>>>> B.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marc Lavallée wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 16 Août 2005 11:15, 220hex a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Monday 15 August 2005 01:20, skrev Yves Degoyon:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mathieu Bouchard a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hey, anyone here going to Piksel'05 ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> don't forget they're extremists and can't stand any windows 
>>>>>>>> users ))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> total bollocks ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we might well be extremists, but windows is accepted as well as
>>>>>>> OSX, as
>>>>>>> long as the user-space apps is open-source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It'a getting difficult to draw a line between the user-space apps and
>>>>>> the root-space os. Using "open source" (I prefer the term free) on
>>>>>> non-free platforms is one way to promote freedom for users, but it's
>>>>>> far from enough. The first words on the Piksel web site are:
>>>>>> "Piksel is a yearly event for artists and developers working
>>>>>> with Free Libre and Open Source Software (FLOSS) for realtime
>>>>>> processing of video and sound."  Since Windows and OSX are non-free
>>>>>> softwares, the Piksel people should logically be extreme 
>>>>>> extremists...
>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>>
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