[PD] Piksel'05

Wed Aug 17 15:01:36 CEST 2005

I hope in the future the biggest change to car culture will be the FLOSS
car. You want gas and can afford it, then contribute it to the design,
fuel-cell, solar, hybrid, you name it.. Tweak the pickup with your
opensource PDA connected to the car's ethernet (or wireless)

I have a high heart for such things...

I think the biggest issue with free HW is that trickle down effect, Its
cheap to build A because its made out of cheap mass produced part B,
which is made out of part C. How come part C is so cheap? Because some
R&D company spend $1,000,000 developing the production process for it.
To recoup they better make a 1,000,000 units to make $10,000,000 to make
the investors happy they contributed $1000 each.

geurilla investing?

Once the production process (the machine to built the other machine) can
be built cheap by anyone at home, then we're talking!

Homemade IC fabricator? :)

I think the (global) culture is getting pretty tired of companies
telling them what they can do, and so there are a lot of hackers out
there, whether they write software, tweak their honda civic fuel
injection by buying a hacked chip, hack their ipod to be a personal
recorder. Despite the GPL legealease, hacking does require
responsibility, even when there is no "warranty".

-b-

cyrille henry wrote:
>
>
> B. Bogart a écrit :
>
>> honestly I would really love to bring only free software (damn, my
>> nvidia driver would break the rules anyhow...) to piksel.
>
> haha,
> this is an important point : how many people at pixel will use free driver?
> moreover : and how many people will use free HARDWARE?
> i don't think there is a lot's of diference between hardware and
> software : it's just an other job, but same problematic.
>
> using free software and free OS is just the BEGGINING.
> you can't be happy only because you run linux.
>
> cyrille
>
>
>>
>> Too bad my AMD64 & Duron machines are.... Desktops!!!! (not little ones
>> at that). I can't transport such large heavy things all the way from
>> Canada. If I had a linux laptop I would bring that. I don't own such a
>> thing.
>>
>> For the recond this powerbook of "mine" is on loan from the SAT. I only
>> "own" linux machines.
>>
>> I do think you bring up some great points about access to technology and
>> this crazy drive for the newest and fastest. I bought the new machine
>> for installation projects so I could leave my duron at home to do
>> everything normal (like typing this email).
>>
>> I could not find a shuttle with enough drive bays for my future
>> disk-arrays...
>>
>> The SAT did some work on getting a "tele-presence" application really
>> working well using an openGL version of xdvshow, using a low latency
>> kernel and all. It took a year of development for a normal machine to
>> stream one DV copy (DVTS) and receive a second and display it with
>> little packet loss and latency.
>>
>> We REALLY do need better faster decoders/encoders in linux... I agree.
>>
>> www.tot.sat.qc.ca for more info on the research project.
>>
>> What is/are the geurilla approach(s) to increase linux visibility? Other
>> than just using it.. (all my recent installations are linux powered!)
>>
>> Ok I'm done with the cross-posting. For all those interested in
>> continuing more messages are on the piksel mailinglist (piksel at bek.no).
>>
>> b>
>>
>>
>> Matthijs van Henten wrote:
>>
>>> I wish to react to the short discussion about bringing your mac to
>>> piksel or not :)
>>> I want to ask you, PLEASE drag along your your athlons 800 instead of
>>> your powerbook this time ( I brought a duron 700 pc last year and did my
>>> performance on it :) )
>>>
>>> Here's my motivation about it, read it if you're interested.
>>>
>>> I wrote this up in dutch. I am not entirely happy about my english,
>>> therefore I'll be sending the dutch version at the bottom of this mail,
>>> for any of you dutch guys out there. The english is shorter, tho.
>>>
>>> here it is:
>>>
>>> A fast and free dv-decoder is something every artist in the linux
>>> community could use. It is one of those things that keeps linux as an
>>> adult platform for art and media one step behind the commercially
>>> available alternatives.
>>> Linux as such a platform needs more attention in order to make the
>>> usergroup, and with a usergroup the incentive ( or reward, or prestige,
>>> or eternal fame) for developers bigger in order to force a breaktrough
>>> these sort of issues.
>>>
>>> If this doesn't happen, linux will live a marginal existence as a
>>> multimedia platform and implicitly as a platform for art.
>>> The GNU started out by making free tools for developers. The emphasis
>>> has shifted towards free available user tools. As Stallman once said, a
>>> compiler is not enough. You also need an editor, a build system, a
>>> debugger and a whole range of tools to be comfortable as a developer
>>> with the platform. All of these things wich the free software has by
>>> now.
>>> This is just as valid, and maybe even more, to say this about end users,
>>> and in special the typical group of end users that wish to produce
>>> creatively.
>>> The use of computers has improved the tools to produce creative output
>>> immensely, and by doing so, inspired and stimulated the computer
>>> industry to improve.
>>> This kind of interaction ( or, translated from dutch: cross-conception)
>>> could exist with the developers in the opensource community( well it
>>> already does but maybe not enough) as well. And this might be very
>>> valuable for both worlds.
>>> These are strong arguments for me to (keep) using linux, even if it puts
>>> me into a vurnerable position as an artist sometimes, since I have to
>>> rely on the help of developers sometimes, for even the most trival
>>> issues.
>>> This also makes me bump into a lot of mis-understanding from my fellow
>>> artists. An artist, in the view of many, chooses the most optimal means
>>> to create his 'image' ( art, goal, idea). I think this is an
>>> opportunistic way of thinking that is ( inherent |  part of the way we)
>>> think (in | about) art in the post-modern (art | world). ( <- crist I'm
>>> happy I'm not a translator). Nevertheless, there are advantages not to
>>> think in such a way, somtimes, even within art.
>>> Collaborations sometimes create better stuff then simply choosing the
>>> most opportunistic option at the time.
>>> I see myself as a pioneer - I mean without trying to make anything
>>> better out of myself than I am - and as a Young Artist I like trying to
>>> improve something about the world.
>>> Piksel as a festival is even more pioneering, and it is needed badly.
>>> This is why I think that a little puritanism is not wrong on a festival
>>> like piksel. It'll help to create an athmosphere where we can look for
>>> shared solutions, where we find the important limitations and
>>> bottlenecks for the artistic process, and where nobody has to be ashamed
>>> for a badly edited movie, since we simply don't have adobe premiere,
>>> quicktime, macromedia flash or final cut pro.
>>>
>>> So hereby I ask everyone coming, to *especially* bring their old junk,
>>> and not their fast OSX or MSOS to piksel, to discuss about free software
>>> as a creative platform.
>>> Not out because of dogma's, and especially not against the live and let
>>> die of LGPL, but out of pure practical reasons.
>>> Come on, and show us.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Matthijs.
>>>
>>> ---- dutch stuff below
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Een snelle en vrije dv-decoder is wat iedere kunstenaar in de linux
>>> gemeenschap zou kunnen gebruiken. Het is een van die dingen die linux
>>> als volwassen media en kunst platform vaak een stap doet achterlopen op
>>> de commercieel beschikbare alternatieven. Er zal dus meer aandacht voor
>>> linux als dit platform moeten komen, om de groep gebruikers, en zo de
>>> uitdaging( en beloning, en prestige, en eeuwige roem) naar ontwikkelaars
>>> toe groter te kunnen maken, en een doorbraak te forceren in dit soort
>>> kwesties.
>>>
>>> Als zoiets niet gebeurt, zal linux als multimediaal platform, en dus als
>>> platform voor de kunst een marginaal bestaan moeten leiden. De GNU begon
>>> ooit met het maken van vrij beschikbaar gereedschap voor ontwikkelaars.
>>> De zwaarte is inmiddels verschoven naar vrij beschikbare gebruikers
>>> gereedschappen, zoals rijke grafische omgevingen, complete burea
>>> applicaties, beeld bewerkings software, software om video en geluid mee
>>> af te spelen, en rijke communicatie mogelijkheden. Zoals Stallman zelf
>>> al eens aangaf, een compiler is niet genoeg. Je hebt ook een debugger
>>> nodig, een editor, een build systeem, een hele berg van gereedscappen om
>>> je als ontwikkelaar comfortabel te voelen met het platform. al deze
>>> dingen heeft vrije software inmiddels.
>>>
>>> Dit geld net zo hard, en misschien wel meer voor eindgebruikers, en in
>>> het bijzonder voor de typische eindgebruikers die willen komen tot een
>>> creatief product. Het gebruik van computers heeft voor deze laatste
>>> groep gebruikers een ongeevenaaarde hoeveelheid mogelijkheden gecreeerd
>>> om zich te kunnen uiten, en daarmee de computer industrie vele impulsen
>>> gegeven om zichzelf telkens weer te verbeteren, en deze wisselwerking
>>> zou het ook kunnen aangaan met de wereld van de vrije software. Een
>>> kruisbestuiving die voor beide groepen wel eens hele interessante
>>> voordelen zou kunnen hebben.
>>>
>>> Dit is voor mij een belangrijke reden om linux te gebruiken, ook al sta
>>> ik als artiest in een zeer kwetsbare positie, omdat ik telkens weer de
>>> hulp moet inroepen van de ontwikkelaars voor de soms meest onzinnige
>>> dingen.
>>> Daarom blijf ik helaas bij mijn mede artiesten op onbegrip stuiten. Een
>>> kunstenaar kiest toch in de ogen van velen de optimale middelen om zijn
>>> beeld te bereiken. Ik denk dat dat een opportunistische manier van
>>> denken is die inherent is aan de opvattingen in de post-moderne kunst.
>>> Toch zijn er de voordelen om soms niet zo te denken, ook binnen kunst,
>>> en leveren samenwerkingsverbanden soms misschien wel meer op dan het
>>> kiezen voor dat wat de meest logische optie op het moment lijkt.
>>>
>>> Ik zie mezelf dan ook als een pioneer, zonder mezelf daarbij op de borst
>>> te willen kloppen. Ik ben als beginnend kunstenaar niet helemaal vies
>>> van het gevoel de wereld te willen verbeteren. Het piksel festival
>>> pionieerd nogmeer en dat is hard nodig.
>>>
>>> Daarom ben ik de mening toegedaan, dat wat puritanisme niet verkeerd is
>>> op een festival als piksel.
>>> Het helpt om een atmosfeer te creeeren waarin naar oplossingen gezocht
>>> wordt, waarin de beperkingen worden gevonden, en waar niemand zich hoefd
>>> te schamen voor een filmpje dat klungelig geedit moet worden omdat we nu
>>> eenmaal niet beschikken over adobe premiere, quicktime, macromedia flash
>>> of final cut pro.
>>>
>>> Daarom wil ik bij deze een oproep plaatsen, om vooral OSX en MSOS op
>>> piksel dit keer thuis te laten, en dan desnoods op onze oude machines en
>>> zonder quicktime te discussieeren over vrije software als creatief
>>> platform.
>>> Dus niet vanuit een stomzinnig dogma, en al helemaal niet tegen het
>>> gevoel van 'live and let live' van de LGPL in, maar vanuit praktische
>>> redenen. come on, and show us.
>>>
>>> B. Bogart wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey Marc,
>>>>
>>>> pixelTANGO is actually not (at all) optimized for OSX, but it does so
>>>> happen that the starting design principal (high-quality video
>>>> mixing) is
>>>> much more optimized in Gem on OSX. Why? DV decoding libs, and the magic
>>>> catch-all quicktime.
>>>>
>>>> PixelTANGO is actually not at all optimized, but is really a set of
>>>> interfaces. Its first task was video performance and so the OSX was
>>>> chosen, it was developed on OSX simply because my linux machine was far
>>>> to slow to be of any use working with DV files (Duron 800).
>>>>
>>>> But this is a digression.
>>>>
>>>> The bottom line is that everything in pixelTANGO is free and
>>>> multi-platform BUT those non-free components that get linked with
>>>> Gem on
>>>> OSX make it perform much better for certain operations. We just need
>>>> ffmpeg (or something) function as well as quicktime and decoders that
>>>> are very fast and optimized...
>>>>
>>>> Say anyone know of anyone using the GPU to do some decoding work with
>>>> pixelShaders?
>>>>
>>>> Free software on any OS can't help but promote free software.
>>>>
>>>> B.
>>>>
>>>> PS: Showing the weaknesses of one OS in one respect is not the same as
>>>> promoting the alternative OSs.
>>>>
>>>> Marc Lavallée wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's easy: LGPL software is free, but can be used or linked with
>>>>> non-free
>>>>> software. The first letter is "L", for "Lesser", because it protects
>>>>> less;
>>>>> its only purpose is to distribute libraries that might become de-facto
>>>>> standards.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the case of applications, hybrids don't only promote the free
>>>>> parts; for
>>>>> example, pixelTango is optimised for OSX because it is mainly
>>>>> developed on
>>>>> OSX, so it promotes OSX more than GNU/Linux. But I promote
>>>>> pixelTango to
>>>>> OSX users when I can, hoping they might eventually want use a free OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy Piksel!
>>>>> --
>>>>> Marc
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 16 Août 2005 11:45, B. Bogart a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> If it was so easy to draw the line between free and non-free then
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> like the LGPL would not have any purpose. I think we're going to
>>>>>> have to
>>>>>> deal with commercial/free hybrids, which is not at all bad as long as
>>>>>> the hybrids highlight and promote the free parts...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems like Darwin and Apple are not playing nice lately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I'm bringing the powerbook to piksel, and not lugging my
>>>>>> AMD64/Debian mobo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> B.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marc Lavallée wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 16 Août 2005 11:15, 220hex a écrit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Monday 15 August 2005 01:20, skrev Yves Degoyon:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mathieu Bouchard a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, anyone here going to Piksel'05 ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> don't forget they're extremists and can't stand any windows
>>>>>>>>> users ))
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> total bollocks ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> we might well be extremists, but windows is accepted as well as
>>>>>>>> OSX, as
>>>>>>>> long as the user-space apps is open-source.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It'a getting difficult to draw a line between the user-space apps
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> the root-space os. Using "open source" (I prefer the term free) on
>>>>>>> non-free platforms is one way to promote freedom for users, but it's
>>>>>>> far from enough. The first words on the Piksel web site are:
>>>>>>> "Piksel is a yearly event for artists and developers working
>>>>>>> with Free Libre and Open Source Software (FLOSS) for realtime
>>>>>>> processing of video and sound."  Since Windows and OSX are non-free
>>>>>>> softwares, the Piksel people should logically be extreme
>>>>>>> extremists...
>>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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