[PD] Piksel'05

cyrille henry cyrille.henry at la-kitchen.fr
Wed Aug 17 19:08:42 CEST 2005

B. Bogart a écrit :
> I hope in the future the biggest change to car culture will be the FLOSS
> car. You want gas and can afford it, then contribute it to the design,
> fuel-cell, solar, hybrid, you name it.. Tweak the pickup with your
> opensource PDA connected to the car's ethernet (or wireless)
or drive bicycle :-)

> I have a high heart for such things...
> I think the biggest issue with free HW is that trickle down effect, Its
> cheap to build A because its made out of cheap mass produced part B,
> which is made out of part C. How come part C is so cheap? Because some
> R&D company spend $1,000,000 developing the production process for it.
> To recoup they better make a 1,000,000 units to make $10,000,000 to make
> the investors happy they contributed $1000 each.
time = money
so replace $ with developement time in your text and tell me the 
diference with software?????
(to make real time sound (C), you nead a Operating System (B)...)

> geurilla investing?
price of freedom.

> Once the production process (the machine to built the other machine) can
> be built cheap by anyone at home, then we're talking!
> Homemade IC fabricator? :)

> I think the (global) culture is getting pretty tired of companies
> telling them what they can do, and so there are a lot of hackers out
> there, whether they write software, tweak their honda civic fuel
> injection by buying a hacked chip, hack their ipod to be a personal
> recorder. Despite the GPL legealease, hacking does require
> responsibility, even when there is no "warranty".

i did not mention haking in my mail.
that's the main problem. hacking existing hadware is just like cracking 
not-free software : it's a good thing for hardware (software) seller.

lot's of people like to make there software, and there is a lot of 
peoples making free software.
but only few realise that making hardware is not harder. and making free 
hardware is as much important for freedom than free software.

buildig a free computer is not harder than making a free OS for this 
computer. (i personlaly think you nead less developement time to build a 
computer than to code it's OS).

ok, making free software is easier as you just have to be on your chair, 
  drinking beer and eating pizza.
(sorry, it's just a joke...)

maybe we should have this discussion in a few years, when you will not 
be able to run linux on standart computer because M$oft will pay to 
protect hadware against linux.

conclusion : i really think it is ridiculus to say "use linux and be free".


> -b-
> cyrille henry wrote:
>> B. Bogart a écrit :
>>> honestly I would really love to bring only free software (damn, my
>>> nvidia driver would break the rules anyhow...) to piksel.
>> haha,
>> this is an important point : how many people at pixel will use free 
>> driver?
>> moreover : and how many people will use free HARDWARE?
>> i don't think there is a lot's of diference between hardware and
>> software : it's just an other job, but same problematic.
>> using free software and free OS is just the BEGGINING.
>> you can't be happy only because you run linux.
>> cyrille
>>> Too bad my AMD64 & Duron machines are.... Desktops!!!! (not little ones
>>> at that). I can't transport such large heavy things all the way from
>>> Canada. If I had a linux laptop I would bring that. I don't own such a
>>> thing.
>>> For the recond this powerbook of "mine" is on loan from the SAT. I only
>>> "own" linux machines.
>>> I do think you bring up some great points about access to technology and
>>> this crazy drive for the newest and fastest. I bought the new machine
>>> for installation projects so I could leave my duron at home to do
>>> everything normal (like typing this email).
>>> I could not find a shuttle with enough drive bays for my future
>>> disk-arrays...
>>> The SAT did some work on getting a "tele-presence" application really
>>> working well using an openGL version of xdvshow, using a low latency
>>> kernel and all. It took a year of development for a normal machine to
>>> stream one DV copy (DVTS) and receive a second and display it with
>>> little packet loss and latency.
>>> We REALLY do need better faster decoders/encoders in linux... I agree.
>>> www.tot.sat.qc.ca for more info on the research project.
>>> What is/are the geurilla approach(s) to increase linux visibility? Other
>>> than just using it.. (all my recent installations are linux powered!)
>>> Ok I'm done with the cross-posting. For all those interested in
>>> continuing more messages are on the piksel mailinglist (piksel at bek.no).
>>> b>
>>> Matthijs van Henten wrote:
>>>> I wish to react to the short discussion about bringing your mac to
>>>> piksel or not :)
>>>> I want to ask you, PLEASE drag along your your athlons 800 instead of
>>>> your powerbook this time ( I brought a duron 700 pc last year and 
>>>> did my
>>>> performance on it :) )
>>>> Here's my motivation about it, read it if you're interested.
>>>> I wrote this up in dutch. I am not entirely happy about my english,
>>>> therefore I'll be sending the dutch version at the bottom of this mail,
>>>> for any of you dutch guys out there. The english is shorter, tho.
>>>> here it is:
>>>> A fast and free dv-decoder is something every artist in the linux
>>>> community could use. It is one of those things that keeps linux as an
>>>> adult platform for art and media one step behind the commercially
>>>> available alternatives.
>>>> Linux as such a platform needs more attention in order to make the
>>>> usergroup, and with a usergroup the incentive ( or reward, or prestige,
>>>> or eternal fame) for developers bigger in order to force a breaktrough
>>>> these sort of issues.
>>>> If this doesn't happen, linux will live a marginal existence as a
>>>> multimedia platform and implicitly as a platform for art.
>>>> The GNU started out by making free tools for developers. The emphasis
>>>> has shifted towards free available user tools. As Stallman once said, a
>>>> compiler is not enough. You also need an editor, a build system, a
>>>> debugger and a whole range of tools to be comfortable as a developer
>>>> with the platform. All of these things wich the free software has by
>>>> now.
>>>> This is just as valid, and maybe even more, to say this about end 
>>>> users,
>>>> and in special the typical group of end users that wish to produce
>>>> creatively.
>>>> The use of computers has improved the tools to produce creative output
>>>> immensely, and by doing so, inspired and stimulated the computer
>>>> industry to improve.
>>>> This kind of interaction ( or, translated from dutch: cross-conception)
>>>> could exist with the developers in the opensource community( well it
>>>> already does but maybe not enough) as well. And this might be very
>>>> valuable for both worlds.
>>>> These are strong arguments for me to (keep) using linux, even if it 
>>>> puts
>>>> me into a vurnerable position as an artist sometimes, since I have to
>>>> rely on the help of developers sometimes, for even the most trival
>>>> issues.
>>>> This also makes me bump into a lot of mis-understanding from my fellow
>>>> artists. An artist, in the view of many, chooses the most optimal means
>>>> to create his 'image' ( art, goal, idea). I think this is an
>>>> opportunistic way of thinking that is ( inherent |  part of the way we)
>>>> think (in | about) art in the post-modern (art | world). ( <- crist I'm
>>>> happy I'm not a translator). Nevertheless, there are advantages not to
>>>> think in such a way, somtimes, even within art.
>>>> Collaborations sometimes create better stuff then simply choosing the
>>>> most opportunistic option at the time.
>>>> I see myself as a pioneer - I mean without trying to make anything
>>>> better out of myself than I am - and as a Young Artist I like trying to
>>>> improve something about the world.
>>>> Piksel as a festival is even more pioneering, and it is needed badly.
>>>> This is why I think that a little puritanism is not wrong on a festival
>>>> like piksel. It'll help to create an athmosphere where we can look for
>>>> shared solutions, where we find the important limitations and
>>>> bottlenecks for the artistic process, and where nobody has to be 
>>>> ashamed
>>>> for a badly edited movie, since we simply don't have adobe premiere,
>>>> quicktime, macromedia flash or final cut pro.
>>>> So hereby I ask everyone coming, to *especially* bring their old junk,
>>>> and not their fast OSX or MSOS to piksel, to discuss about free 
>>>> software
>>>> as a creative platform.
>>>> Not out because of dogma's, and especially not against the live and let
>>>> die of LGPL, but out of pure practical reasons.
>>>> Come on, and show us.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Matthijs.
>>>> ---- dutch stuff below
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>> Een snelle en vrije dv-decoder is wat iedere kunstenaar in de linux
>>>> gemeenschap zou kunnen gebruiken. Het is een van die dingen die linux
>>>> als volwassen media en kunst platform vaak een stap doet achterlopen op
>>>> de commercieel beschikbare alternatieven. Er zal dus meer aandacht voor
>>>> linux als dit platform moeten komen, om de groep gebruikers, en zo de
>>>> uitdaging( en beloning, en prestige, en eeuwige roem) naar 
>>>> ontwikkelaars
>>>> toe groter te kunnen maken, en een doorbraak te forceren in dit soort
>>>> kwesties.
>>>> Als zoiets niet gebeurt, zal linux als multimediaal platform, en dus 
>>>> als
>>>> platform voor de kunst een marginaal bestaan moeten leiden. De GNU 
>>>> begon
>>>> ooit met het maken van vrij beschikbaar gereedschap voor ontwikkelaars.
>>>> De zwaarte is inmiddels verschoven naar vrij beschikbare gebruikers
>>>> gereedschappen, zoals rijke grafische omgevingen, complete burea
>>>> applicaties, beeld bewerkings software, software om video en geluid mee
>>>> af te spelen, en rijke communicatie mogelijkheden. Zoals Stallman zelf
>>>> al eens aangaf, een compiler is niet genoeg. Je hebt ook een debugger
>>>> nodig, een editor, een build systeem, een hele berg van 
>>>> gereedscappen om
>>>> je als ontwikkelaar comfortabel te voelen met het platform. al deze
>>>> dingen heeft vrije software inmiddels.
>>>> Dit geld net zo hard, en misschien wel meer voor eindgebruikers, en in
>>>> het bijzonder voor de typische eindgebruikers die willen komen tot een
>>>> creatief product. Het gebruik van computers heeft voor deze laatste
>>>> groep gebruikers een ongeevenaaarde hoeveelheid mogelijkheden gecreeerd
>>>> om zich te kunnen uiten, en daarmee de computer industrie vele impulsen
>>>> gegeven om zichzelf telkens weer te verbeteren, en deze wisselwerking
>>>> zou het ook kunnen aangaan met de wereld van de vrije software. Een
>>>> kruisbestuiving die voor beide groepen wel eens hele interessante
>>>> voordelen zou kunnen hebben.
>>>> Dit is voor mij een belangrijke reden om linux te gebruiken, ook al sta
>>>> ik als artiest in een zeer kwetsbare positie, omdat ik telkens weer de
>>>> hulp moet inroepen van de ontwikkelaars voor de soms meest onzinnige
>>>> dingen.
>>>> Daarom blijf ik helaas bij mijn mede artiesten op onbegrip stuiten. Een
>>>> kunstenaar kiest toch in de ogen van velen de optimale middelen om zijn
>>>> beeld te bereiken. Ik denk dat dat een opportunistische manier van
>>>> denken is die inherent is aan de opvattingen in de post-moderne kunst.
>>>> Toch zijn er de voordelen om soms niet zo te denken, ook binnen kunst,
>>>> en leveren samenwerkingsverbanden soms misschien wel meer op dan het
>>>> kiezen voor dat wat de meest logische optie op het moment lijkt.
>>>> Ik zie mezelf dan ook als een pioneer, zonder mezelf daarbij op de 
>>>> borst
>>>> te willen kloppen. Ik ben als beginnend kunstenaar niet helemaal vies
>>>> van het gevoel de wereld te willen verbeteren. Het piksel festival
>>>> pionieerd nogmeer en dat is hard nodig.
>>>> Daarom ben ik de mening toegedaan, dat wat puritanisme niet verkeerd is
>>>> op een festival als piksel.
>>>> Het helpt om een atmosfeer te creeeren waarin naar oplossingen gezocht
>>>> wordt, waarin de beperkingen worden gevonden, en waar niemand zich 
>>>> hoefd
>>>> te schamen voor een filmpje dat klungelig geedit moet worden omdat 
>>>> we nu
>>>> eenmaal niet beschikken over adobe premiere, quicktime, macromedia 
>>>> flash
>>>> of final cut pro.
>>>> Daarom wil ik bij deze een oproep plaatsen, om vooral OSX en MSOS op
>>>> piksel dit keer thuis te laten, en dan desnoods op onze oude 
>>>> machines en
>>>> zonder quicktime te discussieeren over vrije software als creatief
>>>> platform.
>>>> Dus niet vanuit een stomzinnig dogma, en al helemaal niet tegen het
>>>> gevoel van 'live and let live' van de LGPL in, maar vanuit praktische
>>>> redenen. come on, and show us.
>>>> B. Bogart wrote:
>>>>> Hey Marc,
>>>>> pixelTANGO is actually not (at all) optimized for OSX, but it does so
>>>>> happen that the starting design principal (high-quality video
>>>>> mixing) is
>>>>> much more optimized in Gem on OSX. Why? DV decoding libs, and the 
>>>>> magic
>>>>> catch-all quicktime.
>>>>> PixelTANGO is actually not at all optimized, but is really a set of
>>>>> interfaces. Its first task was video performance and so the OSX was
>>>>> chosen, it was developed on OSX simply because my linux machine was 
>>>>> far
>>>>> to slow to be of any use working with DV files (Duron 800).
>>>>> But this is a digression.
>>>>> The bottom line is that everything in pixelTANGO is free and
>>>>> multi-platform BUT those non-free components that get linked with
>>>>> Gem on
>>>>> OSX make it perform much better for certain operations. We just need
>>>>> ffmpeg (or something) function as well as quicktime and decoders that
>>>>> are very fast and optimized...
>>>>> Say anyone know of anyone using the GPU to do some decoding work with
>>>>> pixelShaders?
>>>>> Free software on any OS can't help but promote free software.
>>>>> B.
>>>>> PS: Showing the weaknesses of one OS in one respect is not the same as
>>>>> promoting the alternative OSs.
>>>>> Marc Lavallée wrote:
>>>>>> It's easy: LGPL software is free, but can be used or linked with
>>>>>> non-free
>>>>>> software. The first letter is "L", for "Lesser", because it protects
>>>>>> less;
>>>>>> its only purpose is to distribute libraries that might become 
>>>>>> de-facto
>>>>>> standards.
>>>>>> In the case of applications, hybrids don't only promote the free
>>>>>> parts; for
>>>>>> example, pixelTango is optimised for OSX because it is mainly
>>>>>> developed on
>>>>>> OSX, so it promotes OSX more than GNU/Linux. But I promote
>>>>>> pixelTango to
>>>>>> OSX users when I can, hoping they might eventually want use a free 
>>>>>> OS.
>>>>>> Happy Piksel!
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>> Le 16 Août 2005 11:45, B. Bogart a écrit :
>>>>>>> If it was so easy to draw the line between free and non-free then
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> like the LGPL would not have any purpose. I think we're going to
>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>> deal with commercial/free hybrids, which is not at all bad as 
>>>>>>> long as
>>>>>>> the hybrids highlight and promote the free parts...
>>>>>>> Seems like Darwin and Apple are not playing nice lately.
>>>>>>> Yes, I'm bringing the powerbook to piksel, and not lugging my
>>>>>>> AMD64/Debian mobo.
>>>>>>> B.
>>>>>>> Marc Lavallée wrote:
>>>>>>>> Le 16 Août 2005 11:15, 220hex a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> Monday 15 August 2005 01:20, skrev Yves Degoyon:
>>>>>>>>>>> Mathieu Bouchard a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, anyone here going to Piksel'05 ?
>>>>>>>>>> don't forget they're extremists and can't stand any windows
>>>>>>>>>> users ))
>>>>>>>>> total bollocks ;)
>>>>>>>>> we might well be extremists, but windows is accepted as well as
>>>>>>>>> OSX, as
>>>>>>>>> long as the user-space apps is open-source.
>>>>>>>> It'a getting difficult to draw a line between the user-space apps
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> the root-space os. Using "open source" (I prefer the term free) on
>>>>>>>> non-free platforms is one way to promote freedom for users, but 
>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>> far from enough. The first words on the Piksel web site are:
>>>>>>>> "Piksel is a yearly event for artists and developers working
>>>>>>>> with Free Libre and Open Source Software (FLOSS) for realtime
>>>>>>>> processing of video and sound."  Since Windows and OSX are non-free
>>>>>>>> softwares, the Piksel people should logically be extreme
>>>>>>>> extremists...
>>>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Marc
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