[PD] Re: PD-list Digest, Vol 9, Issue 43
Patrick Valiquet
p.valiquet at gmail.com
Tue Dec 13 00:51:12 CET 2005
On 12/12/05, pd-list-request at iem.at <pd-list-request at iem.at> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. iemmatrix documentation - and mtx_mul~ (Jo?o Miguel Pais)
> 2. Re: PDP and PiDiP (Jo?o Miguel Pais)
> 3. Re: What about multilingual Pd ? (Krzysztof Czaja)
> 4. Re: What about multilingual Pd ? (Max Neupert)
> 5. Re: What about multilingual Pd ? (Piotr Majdak)
> 6. how to transform a number into a message? (ruben pati?o)
> 7. Re: What about multilingual Pd ? (IOhannes m zmoelnig)
> 8. Re: What about multilingual Pd ? (Marc Lavall?e)
> 9. Re: how to transform a number into a message?
> (IOhannes m zmoelnig)
> 10. Re: how to transform a number into a message? (CK)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:52:19 +0100
> From: Jo?o Miguel Pais <jmmmpais at googlemail.com>
> Subject: [PD] iemmatrix documentation - and mtx_mul~
> To: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <op.s1obhhl1618gjq at jmmmp-thinkpad>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
> charset=iso-8859-15
>
> Hi,
>
> following questions about iemmatrix:
>
> - I was looking for the documentation, have the files from cvs but there's
> no help file for mtx_*~. Are these the most current ones?
>
> - where is it possible to find the latest version of the dlls? I look ed
> through the archives, but it wasn't possible to find those.
>
> merci,
>
> Joao
>
>
> --
> Lugostr. 14
> 79100 Freiburg i. Br.
> Deutschland
> +49 (0)761 7074997
> jmmmp at arcor.de
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:45:37 +0100
> From: Jo?o Miguel Pais <jmmmpais at googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: [PD] PDP and PiDiP
> To: "Frank Barknecht" <fbar at footils.org>
> Message-ID: <op.s1oa6bt6618gjq at jmmmp-thinkpad>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> > There are, at least pdp is included in Hans' installer:
> > http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers-0.38.4-extendedRC4.html
>
> I just tried it, and only saw the patches there, no dlls. I thought that
> pdp wouldn't be available for windows that soon (if at all).
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:03:28 +0100
> From: Krzysztof Czaja <czaja at chopin.edu.pl>
> Subject: Re: [PD] What about multilingual Pd ?
> To: Piotr Majdak <piotr at majdak.com>
> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <439D8330.9080504 at chopin.edu.pl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed
>
> cze¶æ Piotr,
>
> Piotr Majdak wrote:
> > Frank Barknecht wrote:
> >
> >> However: German is not RPN, the word order in a sentence is very
> >> similar to the one in English and not similar to Yoda. (Maybe it's
> >> this way in, uhm, Polish?)
> >
> >
> > No, it's not ;-) AFAIK, RPN was developed for mathematical expressions
>
> to prawda... jednak¿e ja to miêdzy bajki w³o¿ê
>
> Krzysztof
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:51:43 +0100
> From: Max Neupert <abonnements at revolwear.com>
> Subject: Re: [PD] What about multilingual Pd ?
> To: Piotr Majdak <piotr at majdak.com>
> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <9F697368-4134-4D00-82C6-0D3F73C1C1E3 at revolwear.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> Am 12.12.2005 um 11:26 schrieb Piotr Majdak:
>
> > Frank Barknecht wrote:
> >> However: German is not RPN, the word order in a sentence is very
> >> similar to the one in English and not similar to Yoda. (Maybe it's
> >> this way in, uhm, Polish?)
> >
> > No, it's not ;-) AFAIK, RPN was developed for mathematical
> > expressions only.
> >
> > BTW, I don't think pd needs international localization in the
> > current development state. There are many another issues
> > (stability, transparency, documentation) which should get higher
> > priority than localization if pd wants to reach for more users.
>
> I kind of agree. but on the other hand it really sucks to make non
> english tutorials/workshops since the comments don't accept other
> than english chars.
>
> max
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:58:16 +0100
> From: Piotr Majdak <piotr at majdak.com>
> Subject: Re: [PD] What about multilingual Pd ?
> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <439D9008.6000300 at majdak.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed
>
> Czesc Krzysztof,
>
> Krzysztof Czaja wrote:
> > Piotr Majdak wrote:
> >> No, it's not ;-) AFAIK, RPN was developed for mathematical expressions
> >
> > to prawda... jednak¿e ja to miêdzy bajki w³o¿ê
>
> Kolysanki? :-)
>
> BTW, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Polish_Notation
>
> Pozdrowienia z Wiednia,
>
> Piotr
>
> --
> Piotr Majdak
> Institut für Schallforschung
> Österreichische Akademie der Wissenschaften
> Reichsratsstr. 17
> A-1010 Wien
> Tel.: +43-1-4277-29511
> Fax: +43-1-4277-9296
> E-Mail: piotr at majdak.com
> WWW: http://www.kfs.oeaw.ac.at
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:01:56 +0100 (CET)
> From: ruben pati?o <rubenpatinyo at yahoo.es>
> Subject: [PD] how to transform a number into a message?
> To: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <20051212150156.55482.qmail at web26514.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> hi pd people.
> i think this a really basic question . I´ve start one patch where i want to open wavs .I just want to send the large of the each file that appears in to the soundfiler to a random object but i don´t know how to transform the number into a message.
> thanks
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> Correo Yahoo!
> Comprueba qué es nuevo, aquí
> http://correo.yahoo.es
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:03:20 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig <zmoelnig at iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] What about multilingual Pd ?
> To: Max Neupert <abonnements at revolwear.com>
> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <439D9138.90907 at iem.at>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> Max Neupert wrote:
>
> >
> > I kind of agree. but on the other hand it really sucks to make non
> > english tutorials/workshops since the comments don't accept other than
> > english chars.
>
> the good thing about german umlauts is, that you can write them in their
> alternative forms: ä == ae
>
> apart from that, i think that there is a distinction between i18n
> (translating the software) and allowing non-ascii characters.
>
> UTF-8 would be nice (if it worked!)
>
> mfg.adsr.
> IOhannes
>
> PS: might be that i am mixing up names like "i18n" and the like, but i
> hope you get what i mean.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:05:50 -0500
> From: Marc Lavall?e <marc at hacklava.net>
> Subject: Re: [PD] What about multilingual Pd ?
> To: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <200512121005.50979.marc at hacklava.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Le 12 DÃ(c)cembre 2005 03:52, Andre Schmidt a Ã(c)critÂ:
> > if we make the gui (with the _VERY_ simple english) to multilangual,
> > wouldnt we need to translate the objects too ?
>
> No. The effort is about software localization, not translation of a
> programming language.
>
> Translating the objects would require PD to support dialects, like
> AppleScript did. It would be impractical, because PD's language is
> graphical and not using a natural language metaphor.
>
> Since Apple is based in the U.S. (THE unilinguistic power), I was not
> surprised when it dropped support for dialects in AppleScript, although it
> was working perfectly (I used it for a while). The reason invoked was that
> most developers were not using this feature, but it doesn't mean it was a
> completely bad idea...
>
> Menu items like "File", "New", "Open", and GUI objects like "messages",
> "number", "symbol" and "comment" are easy to translate. Non-gui objects
> must be named, and most have distinct names or are diminutives, so it would
> be a bad idea to translate them. Even in English, most object names must be
> decoded, like "osc~"; those names are not in English, they are in the PD
> dialect.
>
> > and i think multilangual gives more problems to ALL, than the user
> > learning a little simple english...
>
> Localization is common and considered a *good* thing.
>
> ALL can also learn or remember a little bit of their own language to use
> computers; it's part of the solution to keep and enhance our local
> cultures. Since I'm French speaking, I prefer "commentaire" to "comment",
> "symbole" to "symbol", "nombre" to "number", "bascule" to "toggle"...
>
> Using "little simple english" with technology is not enough to deal with
> complex concepts, and it is an insult to our cultural intelligences.
> English is a rich language, but it's not mine...
>
> > so leave the gui (and objects) in english and just make multilanguage
> > help files, tutorials etc...
>
> PD can be localized, like any other software. It's not a problem, and it's
> the first step to multilingual documentation.
>
> > but then again, as long as theres english version, i dont really care :)
>
> PD will alway support its "lingua franca", don't worry.
>
> > ps. my mother language is finnish, and i was unable to use a finnish
> > language os...
>
> That's sad.
> I visited Finland, and most people were using their computers in Finnish.
> Welcome to the 21th century.
>
> I read the other comments about this sensible subject; of course, some would
> prefer to have support for some new "super-duper" features, and consider
> this language issue irrelevent. The good news is that PD is a free software
> and therefore open to people that would like to use it in their own
> language.
>
> Mathieu, we want DesireData!
> (and a better name...)
> --
> Marc
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:12:38 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig <zmoelnig at iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] how to transform a number into a message?
> To: ruben pati?o <rubenpatinyo at yahoo.es>
> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <439D9366.2080102 at iem.at>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> ruben patiño wrote:
> > hi pd people.
> > i think this a really basic question . I´ve start one patch where i want to open wavs .I just want to send the large of the each file that appears in to the soundfiler to a random object but i don´t know how to transform the number into a message.
>
> a number IS a message
>
> (the only data that are not messages in pd are signals and
> data-structures (for now, don't bother about the latter))
>
> mfga-sdr-
> IOhannes
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:15:36 +0100
> From: CK <chris at lo-res.org>
> Subject: Re: [PD] how to transform a number into a message?
> To: ruben pati?o <rubenpatinyo at yahoo.es>
> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <20051212151536.GA19034 at tema.lo-res.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I read:
> > i think this a really basic question . I?ve start one patch where i want to open wavs .I just want to send the large of the each file that appears in to the soundfiler to a random object but i don?t know how to transform the number into a message.
>
> |
> [soundfiler]
> |
> [t b f]
> | |
> [random]
> |
>
> ???
>
> HTH
>
> x
>
> --
> chris at lo-res.org Postmodernism is german romanticism with better
> http://pilot.fm/ special effects. (Jeff Keuss / via ctheory.com)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of PD-list Digest, Vol 9, Issue 43
> **************************************
>
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