[PD] PDDP meeting?

Hans-Christoph Steiner hans at eds.org
Sat Apr 22 20:07:22 CEST 2006


Installation manuals are the only thing that I can see that makes  
sense with Pd.  So this manual is a nice start.  But it would be nice  
to have that documentation integrated into puredata.org rather than  
somewhere else.

.hc

On Apr 21, 2006, at 12:49 PM, adam wrote:

> isnt it possible to do both (a book man and a patch man)? they can  
> easily fit together and trade content...
>
> if anyone is interested in a traditional manual i have started a  
> floss manual repository for collaborative dev of manuals. its not  
> 'public' yet as i want to get
> some more manuals in there but its fully functional...
>
> the url is:
> http://www.flossmanuals.net
>
> an example of a 'finished' manual is the MuSE manual :
> http://www.flossmanuals.net/muse
>
> and the PD manual is coming along, i would like to get it to the  
> level of the MuSE manual soon,  but i need to wrap it up in a nice  
> skin and put a good index to
> it...you can for the meantime see the entire thing in one page:
> http://www.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/All?skin=basic
>
> the repository allows for output in many formats: PDF (autoindexed,  
> linked etc), tar, zip, chaptered html, printable html, and single  
> page html.
>
> there is also a shared image repository that can be contributed to  
> and images can be edited,resized, etc through the default editor
>
> if anyone is interested i would like to suggest a collab manual  
> development utilising this system alongside the (very nice) idea of  
> a manual made of PD patches
>
>
> adam
>
>
>
> ..on Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 12:40:28PM -0500, David Powers wrote:
>> I STRONGLY disagree with having a manual that is ONLY pd patches  
>> -- unless
>> those patches are translated into PDF or HTML also.
>>
>> Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I always print important reference  
>> material out
>> onto notebooks, and I often do programming with paper and pencil.  
>> So, I'd
>> first of all worry that a pd patch might require interactivity to  
>> fully
>> understand what is happening. So, at a minimum, all patches should  
>> include
>> enough text to understand the information, even if the patch isn't  
>> running.
>>
>> Also, sometimes I reference things on work computers where I don't  
>> have pd.
>> And, on Windows, many things still crash pd. There is nothing more  
>> annoying
>> than being in the middle of studying things and suddenly having  
>> everything
>> shut down and having to load it all up again.
>>
>> So, I feel that a "manual" worthy of the name should allow one to  
>> access the
>> information, regardless of having pd running or not. Perhaps the  
>> patches
>> could just be converted to PDF, and somehow a page index created.
>>
>> I LIKE "book learning", I often learn best that way--I have made  
>> many good
>> pd patches and python programs riding the bus or train many times.  
>> In fact,
>> I find that when I plan with pen and paper, my pd patches come out  
>> much
>> better, and it's very helpful to have traditional reference  
>> materials when
>> working in this way. Does everyone really have a problem with  
>> making a
>> traditional manual for pd?
>>
>> ~David
>>
>> On 4/19/06, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at eds.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Is Adam Hyde on the list?  I think its great for anyone to join,
>>> seriously, the more the merrier.  Already, the intro that I have  
>>> been
>>> assembling is drawing on the work of 10 or so people.
>>>
>>> We discussed the idea of a manual a fair amount in the PDDP
>>> meetings.  I think most/all of us agreed that we want to try to make
>>> a Pd manual that is completely made up of Pd patches.  The point is
>>> to highlight learning thru example for every single step.  Having a
>>> separate manual seems to highlight the book learning style more.
>>> Yes, this will mean a lot of patches.  I already have 60-ish for the
>>> intro.
>>>
>>> But I also just made a pager object which allows you to easily
>>> navigate the pages like a manual.  Its included in the most recent
>>> test releases:
>>>
>>> http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html
>>>
>>> Go to Help->Browser... then manuals/intro and load 0-pager.pd  I
>>> tested it on Windows and Mac OS X.
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>> On Apr 19, 2006, at 5:07 PM, derek holzer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey HC and the gang,
>>>>
>>>> Adam Hyde has been working on a PDF/HTML manual for getting PD up
>>>> and running. I've talked with him a bit about how beneficial such a
>>>> thing is versus a set of patches like the ones which have been
>>>> contributed here. But you might want to have a look at it:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.flossmanuals.net/edit
>>>>
>>>> I may be meeting with him soon about where it could go, and I'm
>>>> sure he's open for other suggestions as well.
>>>>
>>>> Mark Polishook wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Two comments: 1. the patches are very good at identifying core
>>>>> concepts and explaining them. 2. But the hard thing about tutorial
>>>>> writing is it's difficult to show how those small concepts relate
>>>>> to larger artistic concerns.
>>>>
>>>> I agree on both fronts. The main issue with PD is that people use
>>>> it for so many different things that demonstrating "artistic
>>>> concerns" would be pretty limited to what the author happens to be
>>>> doing with PD. All the same, I do find that there is a serious lack
>>>> of "demo" patches, or something like a "user library" that noobs
>>>> could have a look at for inspiration. Simple and not so simple but
>>>> usable tools, along the same lines as the User Library in Reaktor,
>>>> or maybe even the Pluggo patches from Cycling74 (except you can't
>>>> open those up, can you???). I tried to make something like that
>>>> with ParticleChamber, and I know that other stuff has come up on
>>>> the list when people ask about synth collections and the like.
>>>> Might be good to try to collect these kinds of abstractions
>>>> together into a library of sorts (a la RRRAD).
>>>>
>>>> best,
>>>> derek
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl
>>>> ---Oblique Strategy # 76:
>>>> "Give the game away"
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________ 
>>> ____
>>> ____
>>>
>>>   As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should
>>> be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
>>> and this we should do freely and generously.
>>>                                                    - Benjamin  
>>> Franklin
>>>
>>>
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>
> -- 
>
>
>
> Adam Hyde
> ~/.nl
>
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