[PD] datastruct newbie mistake

[Chris McCormick]

On Mon, Sep 18, 2006 at 02:32:49AM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006, Chris McCormick wrote:
> 
> >On Wed, Sep 13, 2006 at 04:58:06PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> >>Well, I'm sort of learning them now, though not at all the way most would
> >>learn about them. By reading and rewriting the source I get to know a
> >>bunch of functions with 11 or 14 or 19 arguments to them.
> >That's cool, but it's a little bit like learning to drive by reading a
> >book about the combustion engine.
> 
> Fortunately I've already learned to drive elsewhere and so I can apply 
> knowledge of how to use some other language's datastructures.

Datastructures in Pd are about graphical representation and user
interface as much as they are about logical organisation of data, and
I don't think that that aspect really becomes intuitive until you use
them extensively. But whatever; if you want to hack the code without
learning about it as a user, that is your prerogative.

> >>Part of the problem with that is that a rewrite of the IEMGUI classes
> >>was one of the earliest things done in DesireData. I don't recall many
> >>suggesting back then that IEMGUI could be rewritten in structs. If anyone
> >>wants to attempt to do it, it would be cool.
> >I guess those work already, so what's the point in re-writing them?
> 
> You know, it's rarely ever just a matter of whether the code does what it 
> should do; it's also a matter of what else can we make it do.

Yes, good point. I didn't see this because for me IEMGUIs do exactly
what I need them to do. I can't see any addition to hslider for example
that could make it easier for me to write electronic music, and they are
concise modular representations of basic GUI elements that do one thing,
and do it well. You are right though; this will not be true for everyone,
and some people will want to extend the functionality of IEMGUIs.

> Depends on how much "marketing" is put behind the features. Pd doesn't 
> have enough marketing, the most it knows is people who say sorry for the 
> spam when they announce their wonderful software. Then for some software 
> the problems start before that. (e.g.: try to find any executables on 
> gridflow.ca...)

Yep, agreed. Then again, Pd is pre-1.0 software.

> >and that isn't even new, just different.
> 
> uh, what do you mean?

Using Pd/GEM for graphics meant learning new things that I did not know
when I used Pd for audio only. Pd/GEM is different from just Pd (but it
has been around for a while).

> >I would be interested to know where you get your data on the number of 
> >people using datastructures.
> 
> By having attended PdConvention04 and Piksel05, by reading pd-list and 
> pd-dev for four years, by founding the #dataflow channel and sitting in it 
> for five years, and then, by organising twenty-two usergroup meetings that 
> consist of 2-6 talks each.

That is a lot of experience and has obviously given you a good insight
into certain kinds of Pd users, but it's all what I'd call anecdotal
evidence. It would be nice to get actual survey data from users of this
list as to what libraries, features, distributions of Pd people work
with and hack on. Hmmm, maybe we (collectively) should knock together
a nice survey?

Best,

Chris.

-------------------
chris at mccormick.cx
http://mccormick.cx