[PD] elitism, software and academia (was GEM FTGL Sadness)

Nikola Jeremic nikola.jeremic at googlemail.com
Thu Jun 7 11:55:29 CEST 2007


i love this!

On 6/7/07, jared <microcosm11 at msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 03:40:51PM +0100, timon wrote:
> > Some time ago I was explained the issues of why FTGL libs was not
> > included GEM for the extended OSX release of PD. The answer did not
> > make me any wiser. The conclusion was "Compile it yourself".  Its a
> > shame that such a great tool (as GEM could be) is falling into the
> > shade by elitist attitude.
>
> >Sometimes I think what can be perceived as 'elitism' is actually just a
> >lack of time. Remember that the people working on this aren't being
> >paid; they are hobbyists producing code in their spare time. They may
> >simply not have the resources to solve your particular problem and
> hence
> >they ask you to try and solve it yourself.
>
> All of the work done (out of love, not money) by the pd community should
> be applauded.  With that said, there is a sense of elitism.  I'm not
> talking only about the PD community here, though.  Take the users of the
> 'industry standard' software, such as Logic and ProTools.  It's no
> secret that many of these users look down their nose at those musicians
> who use software like Ableton Live, FL Studio, Orion Pro and the like.
> Then you have the users of more 'academic' software (PD, Max\MSP,
> Csound, etc.) who often seem to have a sense of superiority; I've seen
> Csound users look down on Max/MSP users.
>
> I remember a couple of weeks ago, someone on this list posted a piece
> that used PD as the sound generation source, but he then arranged and
> mixed the piece in Live.  Then someone commented with an elitist tone as
> to why he used Live at all.  Further, I've seen coders look down on
> those who use anything that isn't purely programming.  Everyone loves
> their tools, and there will always be a sense of pride in those tools.
> But, my god, its friggin software!  No need to be rude.
>
> Then again, a lot of my opinion is based upon interaction with other
> users over the internet.  This, in of itself, may be the cause for this
> sense of elitism.  While talking on forums and lists, I often find that
> people have very short fuses and are often argumentative or simply look
> down on 'newbies'.  I think that some people are comfortable being rude
> or unhelpful because there aren't any repercussions from acting in such
> a way; they don't have to face the person they're communicating with.
> I'd like to think that a lot of the people who act rude or elite on
> lists and forums wouldn't act that way if you were to talk to them face
> to face.
>
> While I'm ranting :-)....In my academic experience, it's often frowned
> upon to use other's patches in your own compositions because it seems
> that the patches themselves are the work of art; and it's almost as if
> this is considered plagiarism.  And while I agree that designing
> patches/programs/instruments IS an art-form, I don't understand why it
> isn't encouraged for composers to use other people's
> patches/instruments.  Can you imagine if Chopin had to build every piano
> that he ever played?  Thank goodness Hendrix was a guitar player, not a
> guitar builder.
>
> I think academia needs to recognize that there are many composers who
> use computers as a means to an end; who make music with the AID of
> computers; not to make music WITH computers.  There is still a rigid
> line that separates the composer and the programmer.  Most Music
> curriculums are still classically based.  Most Music Technology
> curriculums are programming based.  What about today's composers who are
> interested in classical compositional techniques and forms, but who are,
> at heart, electronic music composers and want to apply these classical
> techniques and forms to their electronic compositions with the AID of
> technology, yet have no interest in programming?
>
> [steps down from his soap box]
>
> :-)
>
> Jared
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
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