[PD] elitism, software and academia (was GEM FTGL Sadness)

[Kyle Klipowicz]

Beautifully written.

One addition:

The elitist attitude may also have something to do with the inverse
relationship between spending time programming and spending time
socializing. If all one doing in your days is programming a computer,
i.e. telling it what to do, one needn't to utilize the more mamallian
soft-logic that goes behind social interactions. So one will start to
become a bit dull in those areas, and consequently will start to
offend people out of being in 'logic mode.'

I'm sure Mr. Spock had to deal with this all the time and I sure as
hell know that many people in my undergrad math department did!

~Kyle

On 6/7/07, jared <microcosm11 at msn.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 03:40:51PM +0100, timon wrote:
> > Some time ago I was explained the issues of why FTGL libs was not
> > included GEM for the extended OSX release of PD. The answer did not
> > make me any wiser. The conclusion was "Compile it yourself".  Its a
> > shame that such a great tool (as GEM could be) is falling into the
> > shade by elitist attitude.
>
> >Sometimes I think what can be perceived as 'elitism' is actually just a
> >lack of time. Remember that the people working on this aren't being
> >paid; they are hobbyists producing code in their spare time. They may
> >simply not have the resources to solve your particular problem and
> hence
> >they ask you to try and solve it yourself.
>
> All of the work done (out of love, not money) by the pd community should
> be applauded.  With that said, there is a sense of elitism.  I'm not
> talking only about the PD community here, though.  Take the users of the
> 'industry standard' software, such as Logic and ProTools.  It's no
> secret that many of these users look down their nose at those musicians
> who use software like Ableton Live, FL Studio, Orion Pro and the like.
> Then you have the users of more 'academic' software (PD, Max\MSP,
> Csound, etc.) who often seem to have a sense of superiority; I've seen
> Csound users look down on Max/MSP users.
>
> I remember a couple of weeks ago, someone on this list posted a piece
> that used PD as the sound generation source, but he then arranged and
> mixed the piece in Live.  Then someone commented with an elitist tone as
> to why he used Live at all.  Further, I've seen coders look down on
> those who use anything that isn't purely programming.  Everyone loves
> their tools, and there will always be a sense of pride in those tools.
> But, my god, its friggin software!  No need to be rude.
>
> Then again, a lot of my opinion is based upon interaction with other
> users over the internet.  This, in of itself, may be the cause for this
> sense of elitism.  While talking on forums and lists, I often find that
> people have very short fuses and are often argumentative or simply look
> down on 'newbies'.  I think that some people are comfortable being rude
> or unhelpful because there aren't any repercussions from acting in such
> a way; they don't have to face the person they're communicating with.
> I'd like to think that a lot of the people who act rude or elite on
> lists and forums wouldn't act that way if you were to talk to them face
> to face.
>
> While I'm ranting :-)....In my academic experience, it's often frowned
> upon to use other's patches in your own compositions because it seems
> that the patches themselves are the work of art; and it's almost as if
> this is considered plagiarism.  And while I agree that designing
> patches/programs/instruments IS an art-form, I don't understand why it
> isn't encouraged for composers to use other people's
> patches/instruments.  Can you imagine if Chopin had to build every piano
> that he ever played?  Thank goodness Hendrix was a guitar player, not a
> guitar builder.
>
> I think academia needs to recognize that there are many composers who
> use computers as a means to an end; who make music with the AID of
> computers; not to make music WITH computers.  There is still a rigid
> line that separates the composer and the programmer.  Most Music
> curriculums are still classically based.  Most Music Technology
> curriculums are programming based.  What about today's composers who are
> interested in classical compositional techniques and forms, but who are,
> at heart, electronic music composers and want to apply these classical
> techniques and forms to their electronic compositions with the AID of
> technology, yet have no interest in programming?
>
> [steps down from his soap box]
>
> :-)
>
> Jared
>
>
>
>
>
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