[PD] complex metronomes sequencing problem

Fri Dec 28 00:30:44 CET 2007

Sorry Libero, I made an error in that post that may have lead you on 
a goose chase. I meant to say [t f f f f f], implying that the float 
(representing time) to which you are comparing time points with [==]
should be distributed across all objects in an ordered way.

On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:20:10 +0100
"Libero Mureddu" <libero.mureddu at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On Dec 24, 2007 12:28 AM, Andy Farnell <padawan12 at obiwannabe.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:00:13 +0100
> > "Libero Mureddu" <libero.mureddu at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Andy,
> > >
> > > thanks for your message, it clarified a lot my problem.
> > > In fact I need a "time aware" synchronous system, could you send a
> > > basic example of that? I can guess that I need a metro plus counter
> > > and different [mod]s, but I dont get how to use [moses] and [change]
> > > for that.
> >
> > [moses] comes in when you want to create separate bars or phrases
> > and attach copies or similar parts to them.
> >
> > Say we have a subpatch or abstraction that plays a phrase [melody1]
> > and it takes a count from 0-127, and another phrase in [melody2] that
> > is different but the same length. To have them alternate you can say
> >
> > [count 256]
> > |
> > [moses 127]
> > |          \
> > [melody1]  [- 128]
> >            |
> >            [melody2]
> >
> > [change]  is useful when you did an integer division or remainder
> > with [/][int] or [div]. Even though the float output doesn't change
> > in value it is repeated for every bang of the timebase. For example
> > a counter mod 16 divided into four bars or four like this
> >
> > [count 16]
> > |
> > [/ 4]
> > |
> > [int]
> >
> > will output {0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3}
> >
> > Adding [change] turns this into {0, 1, 2, 3] changing on every fourth
> > beat.
> >
> > >
> > > In another attempt that I did, I made a select with many arguments,
> > > each one representing a "playing point". Unfortunately it seems
> > > impossible to send a list of arguments as message and set dynamically
> > > all the values for set (at least I was unable to do that).
> > > [multiselect] that should do that is broken.
> >
> >
> > This idiom is useful to make a n beat sequencer with settable
> >
> >    [unpack f  f  f]
> >       |     |     |
> >   \   | \   | \   |
> >    [==]  [==]  [==] .......
> >
> > With all the left inlets connected to the timebase (remember to use a
> > big [t b b b b b ...]. A 1 is output for each match of a list you can
> > update. Use [sel 1] to turn that to a bang if necessary.
> >
> 
> Do you mean something like the attached patch? Where the big [t b b b
> b b...] should be placed and for what?
> Thanks a lot,
> 
> Libero
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Do you have an example of the sample timing based idea that you
> > > mentioned? In fact, the compositions I'm working on are not longer
> > > than 4-5 minutes.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Libero
> > >
> >
> > There's a few things to browse here, including an early example of a signal
> > domain composition with loops and synths;
> >
> > http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/html/music/musictuts/Composition-000/Composition-000.html
> > http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/html/music/musictuts/Composition-001/Composition-001.html
> > http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/html/music/musictuts/Composition-002/Composition-002.html
> > http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/html/compositions/compositions.html
> >
> >
> > > > From: Andy Farnell <padawan12 at obiwannabe.co.uk>
> > > > Subject: Re: [PD] complex metronomes sequencing problem
> > > > To: pd-list at iem.at
> > > > Message-ID: <20071223205532.01f5fcb3.padawan12 at obiwannabe.co.uk>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you have two or more independent metronomes that form a polyrhythmic
> > > > relationship then stopping them will lose the relationship. Each will
> > > > begin its timing series from the same "zero point".
> > > >
> > > > A synchronous system is probably better if you want to start and stop
> > > > the composition at arbitrary points and have it resume.
> > > >
> > > > The general problem with a synchronous system is that the smallest timing
> > > > resolution is the division of the master clock at all points.
> > > >
> > > > But there are also two quite distinct approaches to synchronous sequencers in
> > > > Pd having different properties.
> > > >
> > > > One is based on bangs and built from many subsystems that each hold their own
> > > > state. These "state aware" subsequences use a local counter and a [select]
> > > > object. The advantage here is that if you stop the master bang message source,
> > > > each will remain in it's last state until new bangs start to flow. The
> > > > disadvantage is that no part of the system is "time aware", so you cannot
> > > > jump forwards or backwards a number of beats to see what the sequence is
> > > > like without explicitly going through all steps.
> > > >
> > > > The second kind is "time aware". Instead of sending bangs you send float
> > > > messages which represent the current time. You can use combinations of
> > > > [moses], [mod], [change] and simple arithmetic to make subsystems behave
> > > > in different ways. You can jump forwards, backwards or pause the sequence
> > > > in any way you like.
> > > >
> > > > If you want sample accurate timing you can try an interesting approach that
> > > > Chun Lee and I have both experimented with, composition entirely in the
> > > > signal domain. You start with a very slow [phasor~] or [vline~] and calculate
> > > > all sequence timings using a mixture of [wrap~], [rpole~]/[rzero~] and
> > > > [min~]/[max~] to constrain, integrate or differentiate the timebase. This has
> > > > some really nice features, like being able to warp the timebase and get swings
> > > > or extremely smooth tempo changes. You can also warp parts independently and
> > > > have them converge on some point in the future with sample accuracy (like
> > > > spinning back a sample table and having it land exactly on the beat... which
> > > > you cannot do in any other software afaik). The disadvantage to this is that
> > > > you're limited to songs of less than about 5 mins because of rounding errors.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:08:08 +0100
> > > > "Libero Mureddu" <libero.mureddu at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello to everybody!
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a problem and I'd need that someone could point me at least to
> > > > > the right approach to solve it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Let's say I have three simple metronomes running, built with metro.
> > > > > Their speed is 1000 1001 and 1002 ms (in my case I have 88 of them,
> > > > > running at different speeds).
> > > > > I'd like to have the possibility to:
> > > > >
> > > > > a) keep the proportion constant between them and change the global
> > > > > tempo (i.e. 100, 100.1, 100.2 etc)
> > > > > b) I'd like to stop and restore the metros with their right time
> > > > > differences: if they start at the same time (from the same bang), they
> > > > > create a particular net of rhythms, that I'd like to control, analyze
> > > > > and change. I'd like to be able to stop them at a certain point and
> > > > > restart from another but keeping the same rhythmic combination.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know that this exist and is called sequencer :-)
> > > > > But I want to control this using pd but I don't know really how to do
> > > > > it, and also this is the simplest example: some parts could start at a
> > > > > certain point a change towards a different tempo in a certain time,
> > > > > having different dynamic according to a particular pattern etc. etc.
> > > > > So I think pd would a good platform to implement this.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was thinking to have a global metro running at 1 ms speed with a
> > > > > counter that reads many different arrays: the first of 1000 values
> > > > > (the first "1" and the other values "0"), the second of 1001 values
> > > > > and the third 1002 values and so on.
> > > > >
> > > > > But this works if I decide in advance the metros speed and leave it
> > > > > fixed, but I want to be able to modify the speed and still being able
> > > > > to restart, stop etc.
> > > > > Other idea was to have many qlists, but again, a note approach would
> > > > > give the problem of sync between the different notes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any help appreciated!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks, best regards and
> > > > >
> > > > > Merry Christmas!
> > > > >
> > > > >  Libero
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Libero Mureddu
> > > > > Vanha Viertotie, 21 as 417
> > > > > 00350 Helsinki
> > > > > Finland
> > > > > http://webusers.siba.fi/~limuredd/
> > > > > http://www.myspace.com/liberomureddu
> > > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > > End of PD-list Digest, Vol 33, Issue 163
> > > > ****************************************
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Libero Mureddu
> > > Vanha Viertotie, 21 as 417
> > > 00350 Helsinki
> > > Finland
> > > http://webusers.siba.fi/~limuredd/
> > > http://www.myspace.com/liberomureddu
> >
> >
> > --
> > Use the source
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Libero Mureddu
> Vanha Viertotie, 21 as 417
> 00350 Helsinki
> Finland
> http://webusers.siba.fi/~limuredd/
> http://www.myspace.com/liberomureddu
> 

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