[PD] "Structured" dataflow?

Dudley Brooks dbrooks at runforyourlife.org
Fri Feb 1 00:35:49 CET 2008


Two books that helped me learn how to write clearly modularized programs 
were Starting Forth (1981) and, especially, Thinking Forth (1984) by Leo 
Brodie.  Of course, these are for a particular language, and one which 
encourages -- you might even say requires -- modularization.  But a lot 
of the tips are about how to *think* about the program you're creating, 
so they carry over into other languages.  And they're especially good 
for showing what can be done even in low-level languages ... like Forth 
and Pd.

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> This all makes me think that we should write a Pd book that covers 
> things like good form.  Perhaps we could make it a decentralized 
> collaborative effort with strange consensus decisionmaking to mirror the 
> Pd community :D
> 
> .hc
> 
> On Jan 12, 2008, at 8:41 AM, Jamie Bullock wrote:
> 
>>
>> On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 11:29 -0800, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>> Can anyone direct me to articles on constructing clear, modular,
>>> non-spaghetti patches in pd or other visual dataflow languages?
>>> Especially if the articles derive their recommendations from theoretical
>>> analysis (as with the investigations that led to structured programming
>>> in imperative languages), rather than just rules-of-thumb -- although
>>> the latter are useful also.
>>
>> You might find this document interesting if not helpful:
>>
>> http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/13474
>>
>>> Or is some amount of spaghetti unavoidable in dataflow languages,
>>> perhaps because it is inherent in the situation being modeled, rather
>>> than being an artifact of the language?
>>
>> Personally, I find that there is an idiomatic way to use most languages,
>> which is congruous with the way the language is designed. Of course,
>> people may want to deliberately subvert this relationship, but I guess
>> that's different from using something in an unidiomatic way and not
>> being aware of the fact.
>>
>> Although, I think Frank wrote these in a non-didactic spirit, I find
>> Franks 'dogmas' very helpful for clear and idiomatic Pd patching:
>>
>> http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-04/049447.html
>>
>> I have also found Frank's 'footils' collection of abstractions to be an
>> excellent source of idioms and examples of how to make clear and
>> coherent patches.
>>
>> I must stress that I'm not suggesting that this is the 'correct' way to
>> patch, I just personally find it to be clear, elegant and spaghetti
>> avoiding!
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Jamie
>>
>> -- 
>> www.postlude.co.uk
>>
>>
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> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> 
> 
> Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to 
> realize his wishes.  Now that he can realize them, he must either change 
> them, or perish.    -William Carlos Williams
> 
> 





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