[PD] Pd sounds better than Max?

[Libero Mureddu]

Hi,  my test was in fact a semi-serious one... even if some time ago I
 did it seriously!

 My little experience: I've been thinking in the past that max sounded
 more "detailed" somehow (I used to like a lot the "scope" object, back
 then), but I'm not a good judge:  it also happened to me to carefully
 modify a plugin reverb tale length, being satisfied, and then realize
 that it was bypassed, but it sounded different, I swear :-)

 ciao
 libero



 On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 9:59 PM, marius schebella
 <marius.schebella at gmail.com> wrote:
 > hmm, sine waves are one kind of sound, but musical pieces use more than
 >  sinewave generators. if there are really technical and software related
 >  dsp differences in max and pd then you would find them more in other
 >  objects. the wavetable readers could be different (type of
 >  interpolation...) the oversampling techniques could be different, noise
 >  generators could be different, internal float precision could make a big
 >  difference.
 >  on the hardware side: da converters can make a difference. (is it
 >  overall true that pd runs on cheaper hardware, using cheaper
 >  digital-analog converters creating a richer, more distorted sound?).
 >  max could use additional filter magic that we don't know of (no source
 >  code available...).
 >  marius.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >  Libero Mureddu wrote:
 >  > Hi all,
 >  > I remember some months ago I did the suggested test using oscs from:
 >  > Max/MSP,
 >  > Pd,
 >  > PWGL,
 >  > Csound and maybe (not sure anymore),
 >  > SuperCollider.
 >  >
 >  > Well, they produces the same results.
 >  > Anyway it was interesting to experience it!
 >  >
 >  > Here attached is the audacity project file with only max and pd; max
 >  > cycle~ output is shorter so one can hear pd osc~  output starting to
 >  > play only when the other one is finished.
 >  > I reversed the phase using Audacity, to be honest, but I don't think
 >  > this makes the test irregular :-)
 >  > ciao
 >  >
 >  > libero
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >>  Message: 6
 >  >>  Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:57:49 +0000
 >  >>  From: Damian Stewart <damian at frey.co.nz>
 >  >>  Subject: Re: [PD] Pd sounds better than Max?
 >  >>  To: reduzierer at yahoo.de
 >  >>  Cc: PD-List <pd-list at iem.at>
 >  >>  Message-ID: <47D11FAD.1020000 at frey.co.nz>
 >  >>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
 >  >>
 >  >>  Roman Haefeli wrote:
 >  >>
 >  >>  > hey funny... i also heard people saying something similar
the other way
 >  >>  > around.
 >  >>  >
 >  >>  > since the same digital algorithm produces the same results on two
 >  >>  > different machines or in two different softwares, i think
there are only
 >  >>  > very esoteric reasons to believe, that one sounds 'fuller'
(what does it
 >  >>  > mean technically?) or 'richer' (more harmonics?) than the
other. for me
 >  >>  > this goes to a similar direction as the discussion, if oxygen free,
 >  >>  > golden plated 8mm-diammeter speaker cables sound better than others (i
 >  >>  > would rather suspect a difference there than between max and pd).
 >  >>
 >  >>  well, he also said that it was because the [osc~] had a larger
table size
 >  >>  in Pd than in Max, which would make sense.
 >  >>
 >  >>  my initial assumption was that it was to do bit-depth. i used
to scoff at
 >  >>  people who claimed 24 bit was better; but then i spent some time in a
 >  >>  studio working with 24 bit audio, and, well, you notice. (but
both Pd and
 >  >>  Max are 32 bit float, right?)
 >  >>
 >  >>  i hear you about the speaker cables; there are differences even amongst
 >  >>  digital stuff though. for example when Ableton Live clips, to my ears it
 >  >>  clips a lot nicer than ProTools does. (actually ProTools in
general sounds
 >  >>  very dead - its precision means that you have to work your ass
off to get
 >  >>  colour into your sound.) and back when i was composing in a multitrack
 >  >>  sequencer environment, i remember choosing to use Cubase SX because its
 >  >>  audio engine just sounded nicer than any of the other apps of the time
 >  >>  (Cakewalk and Logic being the main competitors).
 >  >>
 >  >>  > hm.. thinking more about that, i wonder whether this guy
thinks, that pd
 >  >>  > people do just different, probably subjectively better sounding stuff.
 >  >>  > or does he really think, that [phasor~] in pd sounds nicer than the
 >  >>  > [phasor~] in max? this would be actually quite easy to test,
if there is
 >  >>  > any difference at all. create a wav with same frequency and phase of a
 >  >>  > [phasor~], once in pd, once in max, and then subtract the one from the
 >  >>  > other and if you do not get a completely silent file,
 >  >>  > then...............  *i shut up*      ;-)
 >  >>
 >  >>  nice idea, but i'd try it with an [osc~]. anyone want to volunteer?
 >  >>
 >  >>  --
 >  >>  damian stewart | +351 967 797 263 | damian at frey.co.nz
 >  >>  frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
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--
 Libero Mureddu
 Vanha Viertotie, 21 as 417
 00350 Helsinki
 Finland
 http://webusers.siba.fi/~limuredd/
 http://www.myspace.com/liberomureddu



-- 
Libero Mureddu
Vanha Viertotie, 21 as 417
00350 Helsinki
Finland
http://webusers.siba.fi/~limuredd/
http://www.myspace.com/liberomureddu