[PD] UI developer volunteering to help
Hans-Christoph Steiner
hans at eds.org
Tue May 20 12:00:46 CEST 2008
Just tried your new version, very nice, I think it's sorted, except
one tiny bug with the resizing of "Add new startup command". I think
you'll want to set a minimum window width, since you can resize it
smaller and make the OK button disappear.
You might look into the Tile/ttk widgets, they are now included in
Tcl/Tk 8.5. I'd like to use 8.5 for Pd-extended 0.41, so they would
be there. For example, a ttk::notebook could be used to host all of
the pref panes into a single window.
About the error, I just dropped your u_main.tk into Pd-vanilla
0.41-4, so that uses the version of Tcl/Tk included with Mac OS X,
8.4.7. I have Tcl/Tk 8.4.18 installed, it might be using that. But
I definitely don't have 8.5 Here's the error:
Startup panel:
can't use empty string as operand of "+"
can't use empty string as operand of "+"
while executing
"expr {$height + $top}"
(procedure "ScrollBox::dbl_click" line 8)
invoked from within
"ScrollBox::dbl_click .gfxstub5b1230 dlg_Startup::edit
dlg_Startup::add 65 45"
(command bound to event)
Path pane:
can't use empty string as operand of "+"
can't use empty string as operand of "+"
while executing
"expr {$height + $top}"
(procedure "ScrollBox::dbl_click" line 8)
invoked from within
"ScrollBox::dbl_click .gfxstub5b1930 dlg_Path::edit dlg_Path::add 81 42"
(command bound to event)
.hc
On May 20, 2008, at 8:32 AM, David Golightly wrote:
> PS I was unable to reproduce that issue where you saw an error
> message from clicking on an empty cell. For me, clicking on empty
> cells just brought up the "Add new item" dialog. Could this be a
> difference of platform/TclTk version? I'm running 8.5 on OS X
> 10.4. I'd also like to get the specific error message if you can
> get it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:07 PM, David Golightly
> <davigoli at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's a revised copy with a few minor changes (the "startup flags"
> field now expands to fill the window, you can resize the startup
> command popup arbitrarily).
>
> I'm wondering about the protocol of introducing dependencies in
> PD. It seems that BWidget gives us a widget that we can use for
> the listbox (http://tcllib.sourceforge.net/BWman/ListBox.html),
> however, it's perhaps not distributed with older distributions of
> Tcl/Tk. BWidget is distributed with Tcllib, which is apparently a
> default library packaged with most installs of Tcl, http://
> wiki.tcl.tk/12099 says that it comes by default with the
> ActiveState distro, with .deb and .rpm packages, and it was
> installed by default on my Mac OS X 10.4 distribution. But it's
> not guaranteed to be installed with ALL distributions of Tcl/Tk - I
> just have no idea exactly how many users might lack it.
>
> Failing that, the popup should behave exactly as inline editing
> does, even though it looks a little strange. You can still use the
> keyboard to navigate: down, down, enter, type, enter, up, enter,
> esc... Just think of it as inline listbox editing with extra
> window chrome :)
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
> <hans at eds.org> wrote:
>
> Oops, found a little bug: double-clicking on an empty cell through
> up an error dialog.
>
> Also, an idea: if you just draw that popup entry box just below the
> listbox with the OK button, add a Cancel button, then use "pack
> forget" when the user hits OK or Cancel. Just a thought. That
> mini-popup window is the only thing about these panels that is
> weird, I guess that why I still am thinking about how to ditch it.
>
> .hc
>
> On May 19, 2008, at 7:09 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
>>
>> Looks good to me. This is already a massive improvement over what
>> is there. I don't know if you are sick of working on it, but I
>> thought I'd throw a couple of minor ideas:
>>
>> - it would be useful if the "startup flags" entry widget would
>> stretch with the resizing window. Then you could see more of
>> those flags.
>>
>> - perhaps the windows should open above the Pd window instead of
>> the center of the screen? I think you can get that info using
>> [winfo rootx .] and [winfo rooty .]
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On May 18, 2008, at 7:26 PM, David Golightly wrote:
>>
>>> As requested, I've put back the "Edit" and "Delete" buttons and
>>> added BackSpace as a Delete event for Mac OS X. I couldn't get
>>> Cmd-BackSpace to fire effectively, but perhaps someone knows
>>> something I don't about getting that to work.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 7:15 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>>> <hans at eds.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Very nice! The mouse/keyboard interactive is well done, I only
>>> worry that the buttons are now too sparse. I think delete and
>>> edit buttons would still be useful, maybe people don't use
>>> keyboard shortcuts at all.
>>>
>>> Also, on Mac OS X, Delete is not commonly used, so it would be
>>> good to also have BackSpace work for deleting. Or maybe Cmd-
>>> BackSpace since that is what is used for deleting in the Finder.
>>>
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>> On May 18, 2008, at 9:46 AM, David Golightly wrote:
>>>
>>>> A note on the latest changes: I removed all the list
>>>> manipulation buttons and added the following bindings:
>>>>
>>>> - The list items can be re-ordered by drag-and-drop.
>>>> - Clicking on a list item allows you to edit it.
>>>> - Clicking anywhere else in the listbox allows you to add a new
>>>> list item.
>>>> - You can also traverse the list using up and down arrow keys,
>>>> then press "Enter" to change the selected item.
>>>> - Press "Delete" to delete the currently selected list item.
>>>>
>>>> I kept around the "New..." button, since it may not be
>>>> immediately obvious to newbies how to add new things to the list.
>>>>
>>>> I also removed the "Save all settings" button and folded its
>>>> action in to the "Apply" command (and, by extension, the OK
>>>> command). I played around with trying to get an in-place
>>>> editable listbox control for the Startup dialog, but to no avail
>>>> - it's apparently no trivial task in Tcl/Tk. Perhaps for a
>>>> future revision. However, the popup dialog functions effective
>>>> the same, as "Enter" will submit your edit and "Esc" will
>>>> cancel; once you get used to it it shouldn't be much different.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also now centering the dialog windows on the screen. I'd
>>>> like to do this also (especially) for the "Properties" dialogs
>>>> that are used to edit GUI controls. Tk like to try and
>>>> "cascade" new dialogs as they appear; this is too clever by
>>>> half, and really annoying once if you do a lot of editing. But
>>>> I've only tested this centering behavior on my own Macbook 15"
>>>> screen, so it would be great if others could verify it's still
>>>> usable on other screen sizes.
>>>>
>>>> One other thing: these dialogs can now be resized, but they
>>>> appear at their minimum size, so you can't shrink them any
>>>> further (you can only expand them).
>>>>
>>>> Please let me know what you think and as always let me know if
>>>> you run into any trouble!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:06 PM, David Golightly
>>>> <davigoli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Ok, with the path/startup dialogs, this is about the feature set
>>>> I'd like to end up with for now. Please, everyone, review it
>>>> for usability & obvious bugs, and if it looks good I'll submit
>>>> it as a patch.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Steffen Juul
>>>> <stffn at dibidut.dk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 14/05/2008, at 0.16, marius schebella wrote:
>>>>
>>>> David Golightly wrote:
>>>> Keep in mind I'm
>>>> still learning Tcl/Tk, so some of these ideas, while excellent,
>>>> are a
>>>> little beyond my technical grasp at this point and may be
>>>> improvements
>>>> that we make incrementally over time. Also, I have a limited
>>>> amount of
>>>> my time to budget for this kind of work
>>>>
>>>> david,
>>>> if you spend 1 hour on coding and one hour on documenting of how
>>>> to get
>>>> to that step, (instead of 2 hours coding), then the chance that
>>>> more
>>>> people will be able to jump in is bigger. tcl/tk is new to most
>>>> people.
>>>> being able to concentrate on design and ui aspects would make life
>>>> easier. the hard part is to get started.
>>>>
>>>> Especially since the names in Tk are to my experience somewhat
>>>> different to what one put in the search bar, ie. of my/your(?)/
>>>> normal vocabulary.
>>>>
>>>> Example: tabs ~= notebook. See http://wiki.tcl.tk/2298
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --------
>>>
>>> I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and
>>> during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle
>>> man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. -
>>> General Smedley Butler
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <u_main.tk>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>>
>> "[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we
>> are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from
>> scarcity." -John Gilmore
>>
>>
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