[PD] UI developer volunteering to help
Hans-Christoph Steiner
hans at eds.org
Sun May 25 14:34:56 CEST 2008
Everything is working quite well. My only issue with it is what I
mentioned before, the popup text entry box for editing. But it is
definitely usable as it is now.
Thanks for taking this on!
.hc
On May 25, 2008, at 2:22 AM, David Golightly wrote:
> Since it's been a few days since my last update, and I haven't
> received any responses, I submitted patch #1971585 to SourceForge,
> including the updates to the Path and Startup dialogs. Any further
> suggestions are still welcome; I will be investigating
> consolidation of the 4 preferences dialogs into a tabbed dialog of
> some sort (a la Tk notebook). However, perhaps an earlier priority
> for me will be figuring out some improvements to GUI control
> dialogs; perhaps bulk-editing/updates modeled (I think) on the
> iTunes UI for editing the metadata on multiple songs.
>
> Anyways, thank you to everyone who offered feedback and code
> reviews to my efforts! Much appreciated. I'm grateful to be able
> to contribute code to a piece of software that has been so useful
> to me in the past.
>
> Best,
> David
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 8:50 PM, David Golightly
> <davigoli at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, how does this look?
>
> I was still unable to reproduce the clicking bug, but I changed the
> code to avoid the scenario that your stack trace seems to indicate
> as the problem, hopefully you won't see it any more.
>
> Turns out I also have Tcl/Tk 8.4.7. Don't know where I got the
> idea I had 8.5 installed. So it seems either the tcllib or the
> Tile/ttk widgets might be a good bet for the next revision to these
> dialogs. One goal here also I think is to eventually provide a
> good basis for further customization of the Pd environment and UI,
> which will of course require someone to delve in the C for some of
> it, although perhaps to the extent that some customization can be
> done in pure Tcl/Tk, C work can be avoided.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> David
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 3:00 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
> <hans at eds.org> wrote:
>
> Just tried your new version, very nice, I think it's sorted, except
> one tiny bug with the resizing of "Add new startup command". I
> think you'll want to set a minimum window width, since you can
> resize it smaller and make the OK button disappear.
>
> You might look into the Tile/ttk widgets, they are now included in
> Tcl/Tk 8.5. I'd like to use 8.5 for Pd-extended 0.41, so they
> would be there. For example, a ttk::notebook could be used to host
> all of the pref panes into a single window.
>
> About the error, I just dropped your u_main.tk into Pd-vanilla
> 0.41-4, so that uses the version of Tcl/Tk included with Mac OS X,
> 8.4.7. I have Tcl/Tk 8.4.18 installed, it might be using that.
> But I definitely don't have 8.5 Here's the error:
>
> Startup panel:
>
> can't use empty string as operand of "+"
> can't use empty string as operand of "+"
> while executing
> "expr {$height + $top}"
> (procedure "ScrollBox::dbl_click" line 8)
> invoked from within
> "ScrollBox::dbl_click .gfxstub5b1230 dlg_Startup::edit
> dlg_Startup::add 65 45"
> (command bound to event)
>
> Path pane:
>
> can't use empty string as operand of "+"
> can't use empty string as operand of "+"
> while executing
> "expr {$height + $top}"
> (procedure "ScrollBox::dbl_click" line 8)
> invoked from within
> "ScrollBox::dbl_click .gfxstub5b1930 dlg_Path::edit dlg_Path::add
> 81 42"
> (command bound to event)
>
> .hc
>
>
> On May 20, 2008, at 8:32 AM, David Golightly wrote:
>
>> PS I was unable to reproduce that issue where you saw an error
>> message from clicking on an empty cell. For me, clicking on empty
>> cells just brought up the "Add new item" dialog. Could this be a
>> difference of platform/TclTk version? I'm running 8.5 on OS X
>> 10.4. I'd also like to get the specific error message if you can
>> get it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:07 PM, David Golightly
>> <davigoli at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Here's a revised copy with a few minor changes (the "startup
>> flags" field now expands to fill the window, you can resize the
>> startup command popup arbitrarily).
>>
>> I'm wondering about the protocol of introducing dependencies in
>> PD. It seems that BWidget gives us a widget that we can use for
>> the listbox (http://tcllib.sourceforge.net/BWman/ListBox.html),
>> however, it's perhaps not distributed with older distributions of
>> Tcl/Tk. BWidget is distributed with Tcllib, which is apparently a
>> default library packaged with most installs of Tcl, http://
>> wiki.tcl.tk/12099 says that it comes by default with the
>> ActiveState distro, with .deb and .rpm packages, and it was
>> installed by default on my Mac OS X 10.4 distribution. But it's
>> not guaranteed to be installed with ALL distributions of Tcl/Tk -
>> I just have no idea exactly how many users might lack it.
>>
>> Failing that, the popup should behave exactly as inline editing
>> does, even though it looks a little strange. You can still use
>> the keyboard to navigate: down, down, enter, type, enter, up,
>> enter, esc... Just think of it as inline listbox editing with
>> extra window chrome :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>> <hans at eds.org> wrote:
>>
>> Oops, found a little bug: double-clicking on an empty cell
>> through up an error dialog.
>>
>> Also, an idea: if you just draw that popup entry box just below
>> the listbox with the OK button, add a Cancel button, then use
>> "pack forget" when the user hits OK or Cancel. Just a thought.
>> That mini-popup window is the only thing about these panels that
>> is weird, I guess that why I still am thinking about how to ditch it.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On May 19, 2008, at 7:09 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Looks good to me. This is already a massive improvement over
>>> what is there. I don't know if you are sick of working on it,
>>> but I thought I'd throw a couple of minor ideas:
>>>
>>> - it would be useful if the "startup flags" entry widget would
>>> stretch with the resizing window. Then you could see more of
>>> those flags.
>>>
>>> - perhaps the windows should open above the Pd window instead of
>>> the center of the screen? I think you can get that info using
>>> [winfo rootx .] and [winfo rooty .]
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>> On May 18, 2008, at 7:26 PM, David Golightly wrote:
>>>
>>>> As requested, I've put back the "Edit" and "Delete" buttons and
>>>> added BackSpace as a Delete event for Mac OS X. I couldn't get
>>>> Cmd-BackSpace to fire effectively, but perhaps someone knows
>>>> something I don't about getting that to work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 7:15 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>>>> <hans at eds.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Very nice! The mouse/keyboard interactive is well done, I only
>>>> worry that the buttons are now too sparse. I think delete and
>>>> edit buttons would still be useful, maybe people don't use
>>>> keyboard shortcuts at all.
>>>>
>>>> Also, on Mac OS X, Delete is not commonly used, so it would be
>>>> good to also have BackSpace work for deleting. Or maybe Cmd-
>>>> BackSpace since that is what is used for deleting in the Finder.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> .hc
>>>>
>>>> On May 18, 2008, at 9:46 AM, David Golightly wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A note on the latest changes: I removed all the list
>>>>> manipulation buttons and added the following bindings:
>>>>>
>>>>> - The list items can be re-ordered by drag-and-drop.
>>>>> - Clicking on a list item allows you to edit it.
>>>>> - Clicking anywhere else in the listbox allows you to add a new
>>>>> list item.
>>>>> - You can also traverse the list using up and down arrow keys,
>>>>> then press "Enter" to change the selected item.
>>>>> - Press "Delete" to delete the currently selected list item.
>>>>>
>>>>> I kept around the "New..." button, since it may not be
>>>>> immediately obvious to newbies how to add new things to the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also removed the "Save all settings" button and folded its
>>>>> action in to the "Apply" command (and, by extension, the OK
>>>>> command). I played around with trying to get an in-place
>>>>> editable listbox control for the Startup dialog, but to no
>>>>> avail - it's apparently no trivial task in Tcl/Tk. Perhaps for
>>>>> a future revision. However, the popup dialog functions
>>>>> effective the same, as "Enter" will submit your edit and "Esc"
>>>>> will cancel; once you get used to it it shouldn't be much
>>>>> different.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm also now centering the dialog windows on the screen. I'd
>>>>> like to do this also (especially) for the "Properties" dialogs
>>>>> that are used to edit GUI controls. Tk like to try and
>>>>> "cascade" new dialogs as they appear; this is too clever by
>>>>> half, and really annoying once if you do a lot of editing. But
>>>>> I've only tested this centering behavior on my own Macbook 15"
>>>>> screen, so it would be great if others could verify it's still
>>>>> usable on other screen sizes.
>>>>>
>>>>> One other thing: these dialogs can now be resized, but they
>>>>> appear at their minimum size, so you can't shrink them any
>>>>> further (you can only expand them).
>>>>>
>>>>> Please let me know what you think and as always let me know if
>>>>> you run into any trouble!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 6:06 PM, David Golightly
>>>>> <davigoli at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Ok, with the path/startup dialogs, this is about the feature
>>>>> set I'd like to end up with for now. Please, everyone, review
>>>>> it for usability & obvious bugs, and if it looks good I'll
>>>>> submit it as a patch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:53 PM, Steffen Juul
>>>>> <stffn at dibidut.dk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 14/05/2008, at 0.16, marius schebella wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> David Golightly wrote:
>>>>> Keep in mind I'm
>>>>> still learning Tcl/Tk, so some of these ideas, while excellent,
>>>>> are a
>>>>> little beyond my technical grasp at this point and may be
>>>>> improvements
>>>>> that we make incrementally over time. Also, I have a limited
>>>>> amount of
>>>>> my time to budget for this kind of work
>>>>>
>>>>> david,
>>>>> if you spend 1 hour on coding and one hour on documenting of
>>>>> how to get
>>>>> to that step, (instead of 2 hours coding), then the chance that
>>>>> more
>>>>> people will be able to jump in is bigger. tcl/tk is new to most
>>>>> people.
>>>>> being able to concentrate on design and ui aspects would make life
>>>>> easier. the hard part is to get started.
>>>>>
>>>>> Especially since the names in Tk are to my experience somewhat
>>>>> different to what one put in the search bar, ie. of my/your(?)/
>>>>> normal vocabulary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Example: tabs ~= notebook. See http://wiki.tcl.tk/2298
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ---------
>>>>
>>>> I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and
>>>> during that period I spent most of my time as a high class
>>>> muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the
>>>> bankers. - General Smedley Butler
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <u_main.tk>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --------
>>>
>>> "[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we
>>> are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit
>>> from scarcity." -John Gilmore
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------
>>
>> "It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means
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>> Environmentalism", by Curtis White
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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> Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how
> to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must
> either change them, or perish. -William Carlos Williams
>
>
>
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