[PD] hot and cold inlets don't always make sense

Lao Yu noise.now at gmail.com
Sat Nov 22 19:41:56 CET 2008


I agree about the [trigger] object - from the demo patches the  
significance didn't get through to me.

about the angriness, it is certainly my perception that tricked me -  
communicating in the writing using just a few words skips the  
niceness that we express with body language etc. this group is  
incredible helpful - I just need to count my posts and constructive  
replies received.

Best
Jurgen

On Nov 22, 2008, at 7:21 PM, Derek Holzer wrote:

> Who's angry? Arguing with strangers on the internet is about the  
> biggest waste of time I can imagine! ;-)
>
> In any case, [trigger] is the object you should investigate more,  
> as it makes the situation you want possible: change on both sides  
> of the [+] creates output.
>
> See attached.
>
> best!
> d.
>
> Lao Yu wrote:
>> Derek,
>> I went through M-P's patches, trust me. He talks a lot about  
>> looping etc but not about trivial stuff that I mentioned.
>> I knew flossmanuals but the dat flow tut escaped my notice. there  
>> is a very suitable example that is practical to me. Thank you very  
>> much for pointing me there.
>> For the sake of replying one rather angry reaction (I guess he  
>> won't read) - when incrementing a coarse / fine value of for  
>> instance tuning it is totally irrelevant which parameter is  
>> changed first. the point is to output a new value whenever either  
>> is changed. So pointing out that the hot/cold logic is essential  
>> to pd's workings doesn't even remotely give me a clue.
>> But that's ok, nobody is perfect.
>> Thanks again for the patient posters, I appreciate a lot.
>> Jurgen
>> On Nov 21, 2008, at 7:50 PM, Derek Holzer wrote:
>>> Hi Jurgen,
>>>
>>> understanding hot and cold is essential to understanding the way Pd
>>> handles order of operations, so it's best to learn it right from the
>>> start. In your example, it is unclear/ambiguous whether the fine  
>>> number
>>> gets sent to the add before or after the bang gets sent to the  
>>> coarse
>>> number. (This is determined by creation order, which cannot be  
>>> seen on
>>> the screen). This can lead to errors later.
>>>
>>> The preferred way is to use [t b f], where the [f] outlet is  
>>> connected
>>> to the cold side of the [+], and the [b] outlet is connected to  
>>> the hot
>>> side of the [+]. A bang to the hot side of many objects tells it  
>>> to do
>>> the same operation again with the information contained in the  
>>> inlets.
>>> In this case, the hot inlet will have the previous number stored  
>>> in it
>>> as well. All this is explained in Miller's HTML manual, the  
>>> "control"
>>> documentation patches, and also in the in-progress Pd FLOSS Manual:
>>> http://en.flossmanuals.net/puredata
>>>
>>> best!
>>> Derek
>>>
>>> Lao Yu wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> when using an [+] object I find it most of the time  
>>>> counterproductive
>>>> that the right inlet is considered cold.
>>>>
>>>> for example, if I want to use 2 different controls for 'coarse' and
>>>> 'fine' tuning parameters it is necessary to add them together.  
>>>> however
>>>> when changing 'fine' value which for instance is connected to  
>>>> the right
>>>> inlet the new value is only taken into consideration once the  
>>>> 'coarse'
>>>> value connected to the left inlet is changed as well.
>>>>
>>>> the only workaround I found was to [bang] the hot inlet form the  
>>>> cold
>>>> one as illustrated in the attached patch. but I don't find that  
>>>> elegant.
>>>>
>>>> is there a better way to make both inlets hot?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/ 
>>> macumbista
>>> ---Oblique Strategy # 7:
>>> "Accept advice"
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ 
>>> listinfo/pd-list
>
> -- 
> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/ 
> macumbista
> ---Oblique Strategy # 89:
> "Imagine the piece as a set of disconnected events"
> #N canvas 249 81 755 492 10;
> #X floatatom 44 142 5 0 0 0 - - -;
> #X floatatom 86 142 5 0 0 0 - - -;
> #X floatatom 44 203 5 0 0 0 - - -;
> #X obj 44 174 +;
> #X text 41 117 "hot";
> #X text 81 117 "cold";
> #X floatatom 144 142 5 0 0 0 - - -;
> #X floatatom 186 142 5 0 0 0 - - -;
> #X floatatom 144 243 5 0 0 0 - - -;
> #X obj 144 214 +;
> #X text 141 117 "hot";
> #X text 181 117 "cold";
> #X obj 186 169 trigger bang float;
> #X obj 45 343 trigger bang float;
> #X text 44 374 can be abbreviated with;
> #X obj 46 405 t b f;
> #X text 332 301 [trigger] can send an arbitrary number of things out:
> ;
> #X obj 335 343 trigger bang float anything bang bang float bang float
> ;
> #X obj 336 405 t b f a b b f b f;
> #X text 335 374 or:;
> #X text 174 452 derek at umatic.nl;
> #X text 330 167 [trigger] outputs according to its creation arguments
> in right to left order. In this case \, when it receives input \, it
> will first send out a "float" (i.e. a floating point number) from its
> right outlet \, then it will send a "bang" out its left outlet.;
> #X text 26 20 The object [trigger] can be used to change the order
> of operations in a patch by sending a message "bang" to the "hot"  
> inlet
> of an object. "Bang" means "do it now!" \, and will cause the object
> to output.;
> #X connect 0 0 3 0;
> #X connect 1 0 3 1;
> #X connect 3 0 2 0;
> #X connect 6 0 9 0;
> #X connect 7 0 12 0;
> #X connect 9 0 8 0;
> #X connect 12 0 9 0;
> #X connect 12 1 9 1;





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