[PD] max for live

Hans-Christoph Steiner hans at eds.org
Thu Jan 22 02:21:29 CET 2009

On Jan 19, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Luke Iannini wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner  
> <hans at eds.org> wrote:
>> On Jan 19, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Damian Stewart wrote:
>>> Daniel Almeida wrote:
>>>> I dare say PD needs to ditch tcl/tk! SDL could be a good idea.
>>>> Daniel
>>> yeah that's what i said about two years ago...
>>> the problem is, at the moment tcl/tk is embedded quite deeply into  
>>> Pd
>>> itself. this is a focus of the current pd-dev effort: trying to
>>> clear this
>>> up. tcl/tk in itself isn't _necessarily_ slow, it's just that the
>>> way Pd is
>>> using it is not at all optimised (for example, as Hans-Christoph  
>>> and i
>>> discovered once, when you click-drag to move an element in a  
>>> graphical
>>> table, not just the element you moved but _the entire table_ is
>>> redrawn,
>>> each time).
>>> --
>>> damian stewart | skype: damiansnz | damian at frey.co.nz
>>> frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz
>> It's slight worse, even.  The entire table is deleted and re-created
>> on each change, not even just redrawn.  That said, I am guessing  
>> the C+
>> + code on the GPU (Live) will always be quite a bit faster than Tcl/ 
>> Tk
>> on the CPU.  One of the ways that Live is able to make things fast is
>> by ignoring the native widgets on each platform and coding their own.
>> Tcl/Tk is the best GUI toolkit I've seen for making native-feeling
>> apps while writing cross-platform code.
>> If Live is really just blasting bitmaps to the screen, that is
>> something that Tcl/Tk can easily do.  But I am not sure that it would
>> be the fastest way to implement GUI widgets.
>> If someone wants to help this situation, I think the best thing to do
>> would be to create some GUI objects using TkZinc.  Then we'll have  
>> Tcl/
>> Tk on the GPU and that should make things quite a bit faster.
> Wow, hadn't heard of TkZinc.  That looks incredible.  Another cloud
> for my Pd heaven : ).  As I've been writing, I'd really love to create
> GUIs entirely with Data Structures - I'm not sure how much of a
> performance hit that causes but the opportunities for customization
> are much richer when it's turtles all the way down (where turtles =
> Pd).  Is TkZinc feasible for replacing the whole GUI?  It seems to
> support all the platforms Pd does.

That is something to find out.  It sounds promising.  At least it  
would be possible to write a TkZinc canvas which works like data  
structures, but uses OpenGL.


> Best
> Luke
>> .hc
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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