[PD] pd book sprint
Derek Holzer
derek at umatic.nl
Mon Mar 30 20:44:16 CEST 2009
Cool then, I'll hold off on further comments until I've seen your
examples. Thanks for taking your time to explain all this. I think the
more often it gets explained, the smoother the explanation becomes.
best,
D.
Alexandre Porres wrote:
> well, I totally agree with you, and that is why my stuff does not fill
> in the niche of Miller's and others at all.
>
> My stuff is for people who really had never seen anything like this,
> which is practically everybody in brazil :)
>
> I try to put some stuff in miller's book more accessible, but most of it
> I dont even bother to attempt that at all! Just the basics...
>
> The stuff is kinda in between Floss Manuals and Miller's book. But I
> dont wish to inject the things I wrote about inside Floss Manuals at
> all. it would even be smart to repeat some stuff redundantly.
>
> But the theory in DSP we are discussing here is really minimum, and the
> math could not be any simpler, which is just the procedure of using a
> [+] object, as complex as adjusting the gain with [*].
>
> Since it is that basic, I dont find it intimidating at all.
>
> But I really hope we could all share our thoughts and ideas, and create
> different materials that complement each other, and that are also
> coherent with each other.
>
> So sorry if I looked too technical, but I still believe it could be
> simply presented, and that the material could benefit from it.
>
> You see, DC Offset is also important to create Synthesis Control, like
> in the Amplitude Modulation example. If you want to do an AM synth with
> [osc], you need to adjust DC. But the procedure is really really simple.
> I will work on the examples and send it to you as soon as i can.
>
> thanks
> alex
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Derek Holzer <derek at umatic.nl
> <mailto:derek at umatic.nl>> wrote:
>
> I agree with the principles of this approach, but perhaps not the
> complexity. The FLOSS Manual doesn't exist as a way to teach DSP.
> That's what Miller's stuff is for. It exists as a way to get people
> who are put off by the existing documentation, which is very very
> heavy in math, DSP and computer science. These are the people I get
> in my workshops every time. They just want to get an idea of how to
> do things and not be intimidated. Thus the emphasis on simple
> solutions rather than "correct" ones.
>
> If people are ready for a deeper understanding of DSP, that's where
> Miller's book, and pd-tutorial.com <http://pd-tutorial.com> and the
> Roads CMT book and all the rest come in. And perhaps your Portuguese
> one as well. I don't want this book to step into a niche which
> already has many options, I want it to fill a niche which is still
> wide open: Pd for absolute beginners, no prerequisites required.
>
> D.
>
> Alexandre Porres wrote:
>
> you know, yeah, but the thing is that phasor is not actually an
> oscilator at all !!!
>
> the name actually refers to phase, and not sawtooth.
>
> Apart from [osc~], oscilators in puredata are basically
> wavetable oscilators. You have objects such as [tabosc4~] and
> that is it.
> What [phasor~] was designed to do is to indicate the phase of
> the waveform on a table. So you have to adjust phsor to be
> compatible with the table size. You do that simply by
> multiplying phasor (wich ramps up to one) to the table size. So
> what it is meant to do is tell the position (or "phase") in a
> table. That is why it goes from 0 to 1. If it did go from -1 to
> 1, as an ocilator, then it wouldnt work that way.
>
> So there is a misconception of [phasor~] being a sawtooth wave
> generator that can be misleading. As an oscilator, [phasor~] has
> a DC Offset. In order to [phasor~] became an oscilator with no
> DC Offset, we have to correct it.
>
> Maybe it is nice to be explicit about it in Floss Manuals, and
> say that Pd mostly works out with Table lookup oscilators, and
> that [osc~] is a special and unique object that is meant to be a
> Cosine wave oscilator.
>
> Then, when explaining how to get other kinds of wavefroms on Pd,
> such as sawtooth, square, triangle, we could emphasize that we
> are creating them, and building them up with the objects we
> have. Thast also makes it implicit that there is more than one
> way to di it, and that there is no official or built in Square
> wave, for instance.
>
> I actually talk a lot about that on my book. And I present
> examples on how to get a triangle waveform on a table using the
> sinesum comand, that is, by summing up harmonics.
>
> Cheers
> Alex
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Derek Holzer <derek at umatic.nl
> <mailto:derek at umatic.nl> <mailto:derek at umatic.nl
> <mailto:derek at umatic.nl>>> wrote:
>
> Is it really DC offset when the value goes from 0 to 1
> instead of -1
> to 1? I mean, that's the way [phasor~] comes right out of the
> box.
>
> D.
>
> Alexandre Porres wrote:
>
>
> I tried again, and now it works much better than
> before... so I
> guess there was something wrong before.
>
> Well Claude, it seems it almost works as the [triangle~]
> object.
>
> Do you guys know about this one? It comes in some
> external library.
>
> Were you who did it anyway Claude? :)
>
> [triangle~] works in a similar fashion, it goes smoothly from
> inverse sawtooth to triangle and the sawtooth depending
> on the
> parameter (from 0 to 1).
>
> The thing is that Triangle corrects the DC Offset, which
> could
> easily be done in the expr. But now I may start to sound
> like an
> obssessed DC Offset maniac.
>
> Cheers
> Alex
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 1:25 PM, Claude Heiland-Allen
> <claudiusmaximus at goto10.org
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org>
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org>>
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org>
>
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org>>>> wrote:
>
> Alexandre Porres wrote:
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Claude
> Heiland-Allen <
> claudiusmaximus at goto10.org
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org>
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org>>
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org>
>
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org
> <mailto:claudiusmaximus at goto10.org>>>>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> [phasor~] [r~ shape]
> [expr~ if($v1<$v2,$v1/$v2,(1-$v1)/(1-$v2))]
>
>
> I tried that, but it didnt actually worked, I just
> get actual
> sawtooths, and
> no real triangles.
>
>
> Sorry for the shortness/lack of explanation,
> 0<shape<1, where
> 1 for
> phasor, 0.5 for triangle, 0 for backwards phasor.
>
> considering shape as a constant, obviously you get weird
> results if
> you modulate it, but that's half the fun:
>
> 0.0 <= input <= shape ~> 0.0 <= output <= 1.0
> (rising ramp)
> shape <= input <= 1.0 ~> 1.0 >= output >= 0.0
> (falling ramp)
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
>
> Claude
> -- http://claudiusmaximus.goto10.org
>
>
>
>
> -- Alexandre Torres Porres
> cel. (11)8179-6226
> Website: http://porres.googlepages.com/home
> http://www.myspace.com/alexandretorresporres
>
>
> -- ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista :::
> http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista :::
> ---Oblique Strategy # 35:
> "Consider transitions"
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandre Torres Porres
> cel. (11)8179-6226
> Website: http://porres.googlepages.com/home
> http://www.myspace.com/alexandretorresporres
>
>
> --
> ::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista :::
> http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista :::
> ---Oblique Strategy # 87:
> "Imagine the music as a moving chain or caterpillar"
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandre Torres Porres
> cel. (11)8179-6226
> Website: http://porres.googlepages.com/home
> http://www.myspace.com/alexandretorresporres
>
--
::: derek holzer ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista :::
http://www.vimeo.com/macumbista :::
---Oblique Strategy # 178:
"What is the simplest solution?"
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