[PD] Revising Help Files

[Jonathan Wilkes]

--- On Fri, 6/12/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at> wrote:

> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
> Subject: Re: Revising Help Files
> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <jancsika at yahoo.com>
> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 7:45 PM
> 
> On Jun 12, 2009, at 4:50 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> 
> >
> > Ok, a couple things:
> > 1. pddplink gives a big error when loading your
> template:
> > wrong # args: should be "::pddp::srvUse ?root?
> ?port?"
> > wrong # args: should be "::pddp::srvUse ?root?
> ?port?"
> >    while executing
> > "::pddp::srvUse D:/Documents and
> Settings/dude/Desktop"
> >    ("after" script)
> >
> > It still shows up in the patch (and seems to
> work).  I'm on
> > windows xp.
> 
> bugs bugs bugs... keep on coming up... yeah, that should be
> fixed... I  
> think its only on Windows.

I propose getting rid of it in the template.  Even when it works, 
it points to pages that just duplicate the info from the help- 
patch the user would already be looking at, but without the 
benefit of example patches, context, or intelligibility.  Unless 
it's pointing to old pages or something, but I googled pdpedia, 
looked up "float", and it's the same page.

> 
> > 2. Is there an object that outputs the methods
> > of objects?  It would be nice to automatically
> generate info for
> > inlets/outlets/arguments rather than type it in by
> hand.
> 
> This is the kind of stuff that IOhannes is working on in
> the iemguts  
> lib, check that to see if it is possible.
> 
> > 3. Is absattr a normal part of pd-ext?  I seem to
> remember using it
> > previously for something, but it's not in the most
> current release.
> > In any case, I went ahead and tried to make my keys
> and values
> > compatible with absattr.
> 
> No, its part of Thomas Grill's flext externals, which are
> maintained  
> in a separate SVN and he releases his own binaries.
> 
> I think that absattr is not a Pd-ish way of working, Pd has
> no  
> 'attributes' like Max/MSP.  I think the documentation
> should be as Pd- 
> ish as possible.
> 
> > 4. Is there a place somewhere on puredata.info where
> there's
> > a discussion I can read about why each
> inlet/outlet/argument needs
> > a description?
> 
> Hmm, definitely somewhere, donno exactly where.  I
> remember it seeming  
> obvious, plus we were following the precedent of the Gem
> docs.

Hm, I have another view, but I'm running into a wall with my 
current attempts at a solution, so I'll just barrel through using 
the pddp template and see how far I get.

> 
> > 5. Is there a limit to the number of arguments an
> abstraction may
> > have?
> 
> Hmm, I think 10 but I could be wrong.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's more than that.  I'm using about up to 
30 in pd-ext without any noticeable side effects.

What is pd guts for in the template?

-Jonathan

> 
> .hc
> 
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 6/10/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
> >> Subject: Re: Revising Help Files
> >> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <jancsika at yahoo.com>
> >> Cc: "a. tonal" <ladataxi at hotmail.de>,
> pd-list at iem.at
> >> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 9:03 PM
> >>
> >> Hey,
> >>
> >> Your patches look quite nice.  I'm glad you
> are taking
> >> this stuff on, Pd will definitely benefit from
> more work on
> >> the documentation.
> >>
> >> There was quite a bit of discussion on this topic
> a few
> >> years back as part of the PDDP project.  All
> of the
> >> discussion is archived on http://puredata.info/dev/pddp  We did  
> >> come up with
> >> a template, you can download it from the
> SVN.  It is a
> >> bit heavier that your design:
> >>
> >> http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data/trunk/doc/pddp/templates/template-help.pd
> >>
> >> About htab's dependency on pddp/dsp, it would be
> possible
> >> to make pddp/dsp a subpatch.  But then again,
> I think
> >> that Pd-extended is the only distro to include the
> PDDP help
> >> patches, so it makes sense to use the pddp/dsp
> object.
> >>
> >> .hc
> >>
> >> On Jun 10, 2009, at 12:09 AM, Jonathan Wilkes
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi List,
> >>> I'm interested in revising the help files for
> the
> >> basic objects in
> >>> pd-ext.  Basically having a standard
> table so
> >> that one can find
> >>> quickly find basic info on an object.
> >>>
> >>> I made an abstraction called htab that
> automatically
> >> formats this
> >>> information in a gop abstraction. 
> Currently I'm
> >> entering the info
> >>> as arguments to htab, which works quite well
> when
> >> using
> >>> ctrl-t.
> >>>
> >>> However, there are currently lots of different
> help
> >> patch formats in
> >>> the reference folder for the common pd
> objects.
> >> I'd like to have
> >>> one standard format to make it quicker and
> easier to
> >> get help.
> >>>
> >>> Attached are examples of what I'd like to
> >> implement.  Aside from
> >>> the pddp/dsp abstraction, it has the benefit
> of being
> >> vanilla-
> >>> compatible and fitting on an 800x600 screen
> (at least
> >> on windows).
> >>>
> >>> Please have a look at the attached and let me
> know if
> >> this seems
> >>> like a good format or not.  The patches
> should
> >> work with the
> >>> current pd-x.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Jonathan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> <reference-6-8-09.zip>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of
> others, we
> >> should be glad of an opportunity to serve others
> by any
> >> invention of ours; and this we should do freely
> and
> >> generously.     
>    - Benjamin
> >> Franklin
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> "[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity,
> but we are  
> deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit
> from  
> scarcity."        -John Gilmore
> 
> 
>