[PD] Finding "$0" and dealing with it in messages

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

Phil Stone wrote:

> 
> I think the fact that this is an eternally-recurring topic points to
> just how irritating this one little foible of Pd is -- it's confusing to
> newbies, 

i agree

> and it's annoying to more experienced programmers.

but i can't follow here .-)

> But $0 is exceptional in *all* cases!  Its use in objects has a very
> different meaning than the use of $1, $2.... in objects.  Yet no one
> calls for eliminating $0 from object boxes -- why is the same argument

actually i do.
obviously it would break everything, so i won't say that loud.

> repeated over and over as justification for its prohibition in message
> boxes?  I just don't understand this.
> 
> 
> If only (as many have said) "$0" had been written as "#0" or something
> else completely un-encumbered with ideas about what "$" must mean in Pd.

but why "0"? what is #1 to mean then?
i always favoured a more bash-like syntax, e.g. "$$" (which is the PID
of a process; i think this maps nicely to what $0 currently is)

>> The only thing i don't really get: Why seems there some agreement, that
>> using $0 to get the selector could be confusing?

because i want to get the selector of an object-box as well (it's name).

> Well, I think that would make things even worse - further muddying the
> waters, as it were, by adding yet another meaning to the dollar-sign.  I
> don't see it as any more consistent or "pure", given the unique role
> that $0 has in *all* cases.

as explained lengthily months ago, i still don't think that messages
should have any notion of the surrounding patch.

> When all is said and done, things in the Pd world will go on as they
> have, and we won't really suffer because of this one little grain of
> sand in our shell.  But we probably will continue to discuss it every
> few months!

don't know whether we should.
most likely, we will.

fgmasdr
IOhannes
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