[PD] Finding "$0" and dealing with it in messages

[Roman Haefeli]

While definitely understanding your irritation, the only point of your
writing i was able to find is that it would make it 'easier'.

I definitely cannot support the idea of making one special case (that
arises a lot, i admit) easier, while disregarding completely the
concepts and consistency.

Luckily, i don't have make this decision. However, i still think $0 in
message boxes should expand to the selector of the incoming message.

roman


On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 08:54 -0800, Phil Stone wrote:
> Roman Haefeli wrote:
> > This is obviously a loop. All this has been said and proposed before in the
> > thread [1], that has been posted by alex porres a few posts back. Sorry for
> > not having brought any new perspectives into the discussion, but having just
> > repeated what has been said already.
> >   
> 
> Hi Roman,
> 
> 
> I think the fact that this is an eternally-recurring topic points to 
> just how irritating this one little foible of Pd is -- it's confusing to 
> newbies, and it's annoying to more experienced programmers.
> 
> 
> I want to address the point you brought up in the first message:
> 
> > $0 in messages is only special in the sense, that it has no meaning at all.
> > it wouldn't make it less special to use it as a container for canvas
> > identifier in message boxes. $-variables in objects have a different meaning
> > from $-variables in message boxes, no matter what. I understand, that it
> > would make patching often a lot easier, but conceptually it would be
> > exceptional to make $0 in message-boxes be replaced by the
> > canvas-identifier, while all other $n-variables in message-boxes get
> > replaced by the n-th element of the incoming list.
> 
> But $0 is exceptional in *all* cases!  Its use in objects has a very 
> different meaning than the use of $1, $2.... in objects.  Yet no one 
> calls for eliminating $0 from object boxes -- why is the same argument 
> repeated over and over as justification for its prohibition in message 
> boxes?  I just don't understand this.
> 
> 
> If only (as many have said) "$0" had been written as "#0" or something 
> else completely un-encumbered with ideas about what "$" must mean in Pd.
> 
> 
> > The only thing i don't really get: Why seems there some agreement, that
> > using $0 to get the selector could be confusing?
> 
> 
> Well, I think that would make things even worse - further muddying the 
> waters, as it were, by adding yet another meaning to the dollar-sign.  I 
> don't see it as any more consistent or "pure", given the unique role 
> that $0 has in *all* cases.
> 
> 
> When all is said and done, things in the Pd world will go on as they 
> have, and we won't really suffer because of this one little grain of 
> sand in our shell.  But we probably will continue to discuss it every 
> few months!
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Phil
> http://www.pkstonemusic.com/pubmusic.html
> 
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