[PD] Pd, Max/Msp, Reaktor, Plogue Bidule... How do these compare?

[Adityo Pratomo]

Sorry for bringing this old thread up, I find Alex's opinion very
interesting. Actually I kinda feel that using Pd, I'm stuck in the process
of "making the instrument instead of the music" kinda situation.Even though
at first, I can custom made an instrument specific to what I want, I ended
up exhausted at building the instrument first, and find myself resting for
several moments before finally finishing a composition.

I recently tried Reaktor, and one thing that's best is the interface, that
features definitely makes me interested in learning deeper into this tool. I
also tried Max/MSP, and yes I love the interface, kinda more engaging to
patch things. I also recently acquired Launchpad, (with all the monome
emulations build using Max/MSP, I become slowly adapt to it). But either
way, I kinda stuck with Pd because this is the first audiovisual environment
programming that I know and dig. So, I think, probably it will all go down
to which tool we are comfort with (ugh, sounds so diplomatic, hate it).

But anyway, I feel that Max/MSP produce a smoother audio than Pd, is it me
or does anyone feel this too?

Regards,

Didit

lunchboxavlab.wordpress.com

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Alexandre Porres <porres at gmail.com> wrote:

> hi,
> Here are MY thoughts:
>
>
> As a composer attending composition courses in brazilian universities I was
> presented with the idea that MAX was "professional" and "stable. and pd
> "experimental" and "unstable". Another given point is that MAX had some
> wonderful capabilities that Pd might never, giving the sense that you can
> only do some sorts of thing in MAX. But that is some load of BS in my
> opinion (I know you didn't see that coming... shocking, huh?).
>
> when it came for me to decide which to study and where to implement my
> research. It felt logical to go for a free environment, meaning that I'd be
> able to show results and present knowledge in a free way, and one wouldn't
> need to buy a software to able to check my study. But this seems more of an
> issue here in Brazil, as in some places people don't bother with the cash
> issue, and got MAX everywhere.
>
> But in Brazil, most MAX users go for the pirate version, and if you hope
> for stability, what is the point in that?
>
> The CA$H issue is greatly pertinent in this discussion, but it gets deeper
> than that. The way I see it, and you have put it in your email, is that Pd
> and MAX are in fact more powerful, and you need quite a knowledge to be able
> to design stuff. Reaktor and Bidule are easier for that matter.
>
> So my point is, it is too important that you really know what you are
> doing. You need to study DSP for christ's sake, know exactly how FFT works,
> or even Wavelets! You also need to really work hard and practice it as an
> instrument to be able to develop patching techniques in Pd or MAX.
>
> They are great "Do it yourself" environments, and now I ask, what is the
> point of spending a lot here? It seems reasonable for me to pay for other
> people to do the work for you. If this was cooking, I would pay for a chef
> to cook for me, and not spend a lot to make the meal myself...
>
> At least here in Brazil, I haven't seen people doing great and highly
> sophisticated MAX patches that would justify it being a more powerful tool.
> And i dont really use it to know myself whatever there is to it besides the
> friendlier interface and customer support. And i haven't had trouble not
> being able to use Pd in my Computer Music projects. I also have the idea
> that Pd is simpler and more straight to the point, and that MAX is heavier
> to run and has all sorts of gadgets that are there more to justify the
> investment, but that end up making it more confusing for me.
>
> It gets to a point where is rather paradoxal to me, you have a do it
> yourself environment trying to be an end-user end oriented tool.
>
> Now, Reaktor and Bidule are not that powerful and more straightforward into
> some direction. This makes them more specific tools and easier to use, and I
> see now the point of paying for those. they are more headed torwards
> end-users, and they are kind of cooking for them.
>
> Another issue comes to aesthetics. Being a free software community, stuff
> made in Pd or by Pd people tends to be more anarchic and somewhat
> standard-free. MAX, on the other hand, seems to be highly inserted into this
> really specialized niche of the traditional Computer Music environment.
> After all, it is something that comes from IRCAM, so it is natural that the
> aesthetic of MAX users usually tend to look as something related to IRCAM's
> school, and that kind of standard.
>
> But then, being a composer dealing with computer music is hard because you
> need to be both a composer and a computer science guy. The way around is
> making partnerships, and people in IRCAM actually do partnerships. So, if
> you are a composer, you need to compose and that is it... you give the
> computer stuff to a computer guy and let him bother with it in the way he
> wants. Philippe Manoury is a composer that was there when MAX came out, and
> his pieces are classic MAX computer music pieces from the 80's. Now the same
> pieces are being done in Pd. You ask, did Philippe change from MAX to Pd?
> No, not at all. He was working with Miller Puckette in the 80's in IRCAM,
> and keeps working with Miller to this date in San diego. He is just the
> composer, and Miller is the computer guy... Miller wrote MAX in the 80's,
> but now uses Pd which he also wrote himself.
>
> Well, thanks for your attention on my thoughts, see you next time.
>
> Cheers
> Alex
>
>
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