[PD] Font weirdness with 0.43test

Hans-Christoph Steiner hans at at.or.at
Wed Aug 25 21:39:34 CEST 2010


I figured out the cause.  The problem is caused by the font used being
different than the font that fits into the standardized boxes.  If you
have the margin problem or the offset clicking problem then your Tcl/Tk
is not used "DejaVu Sans Mono" or "Andale Mono", the two fonts I have
found that fit into the standard box size.

Other fonts have different ratios of height to width, and when Pd uses a
different font, it tries to size it larger to fit the DejaVu Sans Mono.
Also Tcl/Tk 8.4 does a bad job of font handling on GNU/Linux/X11.  8.5
is better but different than 8.4.

The DejaVu fonts are the standard fonts for GNOME and are included in
all major distros, so those seem the natural font to standardize on.
Also, DejaVu Sans Mono looks pretty good.

To get an idea, run the attached script with your wish.  It would be
quite useful if people would post the results of that script here so we
can see what fonts are commonly available.

.hc

On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 11:49 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
> By 'margin' I meant that 'the box is larger than the text inside it so there's
> a bunch of empty space inside it'... if you don't see that you won't have the
> problem I'm having :)
> 
> M
> 
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 02:45:12PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> > 
> > Ok, testing now... as for having the boxes with a standardized size,
> > that's been the case with Pd-extended 0.40 and is also the case with
> > 0.43 as of now.  I'm not sure if I understand your idea about the margin
> > tho, but an outline in edit mode sounds like a good idea.
> > 
> > .hc
> > 
> > On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 11:09 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > > Sure...  here:
> > > 
> > > #N canvas 359 131 405 427 10;
> > > #X msg 98 55 \; line 1 \; line 2 \; line 3 \; line 4 \; line 5 \; line
> > > 6 \; line 7 \; line 8 \; line 9 \; line 10 \; line 11 \; line 12 \;
> > > line 13 \; line 14 \; line 15 \; line 16 \; line 17 \; line 18 \; line
> > > 19 \; line 20;
> > > 
> > > On my machine the text box is several (20?) pixels too tall and to select
> > > the bottom line of text you have to click way below it.
> > > 
> > > I don't see how the thing can be made truly cross-platform unless there's
> > > a way to get text to have a determined size (both vertical and horizontal)
> > > and that seems to be impossible to get to work cross-platform.
> > > 
> > > The only solution I can think of for getting boxes to have consistent sizes is
> > > to use Mathieu's suggestion and make the box have a standardized size, simply
> > > adding margin when the text font doesn't actually fill it.  (There's have to
> > > be an outline drawn around comments when the patch is unlocked too.)
> > > 
> > > cheers
> > > Miller
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:15:11PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > I think the real solution to this would be one step deeper.  If Pd
> > > > used Tcl to handle the GUI interaction, then we could use the Tk
> > > > scaling feature, which is what Tk does to handle cross-platform
> > > > differences in font rendering.  Pd could then store the Tk scaling
> > > > number in the patch, and use it to scale internal copies of pixel
> > > > values, when necessary. Then we could have the best of both worlds.
> > > > This would also give us the ability to zoom/scale patches for free.
> > > > 
> > > > This is not as hard as it might seem, I believe DesireData has this
> > > > working.  I think this would also be quite clean and actually
> > > > simplify Pd's code rather than adding more complexity by tracking
> > > > both when fonts should fit to the box size and when the box size
> > > > should fit to the font.
> > > > 
> > > > I'll take a look at the big text block clicking issue now.  Do you
> > > > have an example patch?
> > > > 
> > > > .hc
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Aug 24, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > >Long as there's a way to fix a problem I'm having:  in message
> > > > >boxes with
> > > > >many lines of text, you can easily click on one character and
> > > > >select one above
> > > > >it... it gets very confusing.  (Fedora 13 out-of-box).
> > > > >
> > > > >I'm guessing that in the current version the GUI simply tells Pd
> > > > >what size
> > > > >the font ought to have had instead of the genuine one.  Pd could
> > > > >easily
> > > > >expand the box to the ought-to size (at least optionally for those
> > > > >wishing
> > > > >to make cross-platform patches) but should know about the text's
> > > > >actual size
> > > > >anyway.  To be continued...
> > > > >
> > > > >cheers
> > > > >Miller
> > > > >
> > > > >On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 01:21:08AM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>On Aug 23, 2010, at 7:01 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>Hi,
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 01:39:08PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> > > > >>>>BTW I've been using Pd-Extended's Linux/OSX default font
> > > > >>>>size as the
> > > > >>>>basis for all my patches for making my last 400 patches or so.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>I've used Pd vanilla for all my patches so far, with a "10"
> > > > >>>font-size,
> > > > >>>whatever that is in pixels. I know, that Pd-extended uses some
> > > > >>>different
> > > > >>>layout for several years now, which makes patches look wrong
> > > > >>>when you
> > > > >>>load them in Pd vanilla and the other way around. I have not much
> > > > >>>interest to discuss the differences between vanilla and Pd-x,
> > > > >>>as I am
> > > > >>>hoping the two to unify again with the gui-rewrite. So I'm
> > > > >>>willing to
> > > > >>>change my preferences to whatever will be the new vanilla, but I'd
> > > > >>>prefer to not do again that with every release or with every new
> > > > >>>Courier-like font that pops up on the Internets' Top 10 console font
> > > > >>>lists and is so much better than the previous ones.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Unless Miller changes it in the future, Pd 0.43 should have the same
> > > > >>boxes sizes that Pd-extended has had for a couple versions.  That
> > > > >>was one of my goals with the GUI rewrite.  Its a bug if that's not
> > > > >>the case.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>.hc
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >>
> > > > >>The arc of history bends towards justice.     - Dr. Martin Luther
> > > > >>King, Jr.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
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> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > 
> > > > You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you
> > > > can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > 

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