[PD] Font weirdness with 0.43test

Hans-Christoph Steiner hans at at.or.at
Thu Aug 26 17:53:15 CEST 2010


You will get poor results using anything less than 8.5.  There are  
serious bugs in the 8.4 branch, especially with font handling on GNU/ 
Linux.  If you are on a Debian system, you can do:

apt-get install tcl8.5 tk8.5
update-alternatives wish

Then choose wish8.5.  Pd 0.42 should be fine with 8.5.

.hc

On Aug 25, 2010, at 5:50 PM, cyrille henry wrote:

> 8.4.19
> c
>
> Le 25/08/2010 22:58, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
>>
>> Which wish are you using?
>>
>> $ wish
>> % info patchlevel
>> 8.5.8
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 22:30 +0200, cyrille henry wrote:
>>> hello,
>>>
>>> withubuntu 10.04
>>>
>>> pd -noprefs
>>> ->  the message box are higher than the text
>>> pd -noprefs -font-face "andale mono" solve the problem
>>>
>>> so, andale mono is here, but not used...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> here is the result of your script.
>>>
>>> linespace	ascent		descent		font name
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 13		11		2		msbm10
>>> 13		11		2		webdings
>>> 13		11		2		fixed
>>> 18		15		3		lucidatypewriter
>>> 19		14		5		courier 10 pitch
>>> 13		11		2		cmsy10
>>> 21		17		4		andale mono
>>> 14		11		3		clean
>>> 17		13		4		terminal
>>> 16		14		2		gothic
>>> 13		11		2		cmr10
>>> 13		11		2		wenquanyi zenhei
>>> 16		14		2		song ti
>>> 37		15		22		open look cursor
>>> 13		11		2		cmex10
>>> 16		14		2		mincho
>>> 13		11		2		msam10
>>> 18		14		4		courier
>>> 13		11		2		inconsolata
>>> 16		16		0		nil
>>> 13		11		2		cmmi10
>>> 16		14		2		fangsong ti
>>> 20		16		4		dotum
>>> 28		17		11		courier new
>>> 18		14		4		nimbus mono l
>>> 20		16		4		batang
>>> 13		11		2		wasy10
>>>
>>> Cyrille
>>>
>>> Le 25/08/2010 21:39, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> I figured out the cause.  The problem is caused by the font used  
>>>> being
>>>> different than the font that fits into the standardized boxes.   
>>>> If you
>>>> have the margin problem or the offset clicking problem then your  
>>>> Tcl/Tk
>>>> is not used "DejaVu Sans Mono" or "Andale Mono", the two fonts I  
>>>> have
>>>> found that fit into the standard box size.
>>>>
>>>> Other fonts have different ratios of height to width, and when Pd  
>>>> uses a
>>>> different font, it tries to size it larger to fit the DejaVu Sans  
>>>> Mono.
>>>> Also Tcl/Tk 8.4 does a bad job of font handling on GNU/Linux/ 
>>>> X11.  8.5
>>>> is better but different than 8.4.
>>>>
>>>> The DejaVu fonts are the standard fonts for GNOME and are  
>>>> included in
>>>> all major distros, so those seem the natural font to standardize  
>>>> on.
>>>> Also, DejaVu Sans Mono looks pretty good.
>>>>
>>>> To get an idea, run the attached script with your wish.  It would  
>>>> be
>>>> quite useful if people would post the results of that script here  
>>>> so we
>>>> can see what fonts are commonly available.
>>>>
>>>> .hc
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 11:49 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>>> By 'margin' I meant that 'the box is larger than the text inside  
>>>>> it so there's
>>>>> a bunch of empty space inside it'... if you don't see that you  
>>>>> won't have the
>>>>> problem I'm having :)
>>>>>
>>>>> M
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 02:45:12PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, testing now... as for having the boxes with a standardized  
>>>>>> size,
>>>>>> that's been the case with Pd-extended 0.40 and is also the case  
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> 0.43 as of now.  I'm not sure if I understand your idea about  
>>>>>> the margin
>>>>>> tho, but an outline in edit mode sounds like a good idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 11:09 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>>>>> Sure...  here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #N canvas 359 131 405 427 10;
>>>>>>> #X msg 98 55 \; line 1 \; line 2 \; line 3 \; line 4 \; line 5  
>>>>>>> \; line
>>>>>>> 6 \; line 7 \; line 8 \; line 9 \; line 10 \; line 11 \; line  
>>>>>>> 12 \;
>>>>>>> line 13 \; line 14 \; line 15 \; line 16 \; line 17 \; line 18  
>>>>>>> \; line
>>>>>>> 19 \; line 20;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On my machine the text box is several (20?) pixels too tall  
>>>>>>> and to select
>>>>>>> the bottom line of text you have to click way below it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't see how the thing can be made truly cross-platform  
>>>>>>> unless there's
>>>>>>> a way to get text to have a determined size (both vertical and  
>>>>>>> horizontal)
>>>>>>> and that seems to be impossible to get to work cross-platform.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only solution I can think of for getting boxes to have  
>>>>>>> consistent sizes is
>>>>>>> to use Mathieu's suggestion and make the box have a  
>>>>>>> standardized size, simply
>>>>>>> adding margin when the text font doesn't actually fill it.   
>>>>>>> (There's have to
>>>>>>> be an outline drawn around comments when the patch is unlocked  
>>>>>>> too.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>> Miller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:15:11PM -0400, Hans-Christoph  
>>>>>>> Steiner wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the real solution to this would be one step deeper.   
>>>>>>>> If Pd
>>>>>>>> used Tcl to handle the GUI interaction, then we could use the  
>>>>>>>> Tk
>>>>>>>> scaling feature, which is what Tk does to handle cross-platform
>>>>>>>> differences in font rendering.  Pd could then store the Tk  
>>>>>>>> scaling
>>>>>>>> number in the patch, and use it to scale internal copies of  
>>>>>>>> pixel
>>>>>>>> values, when necessary. Then we could have the best of both  
>>>>>>>> worlds.
>>>>>>>> This would also give us the ability to zoom/scale patches for  
>>>>>>>> free.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is not as hard as it might seem, I believe DesireData  
>>>>>>>> has this
>>>>>>>> working.  I think this would also be quite clean and actually
>>>>>>>> simplify Pd's code rather than adding more complexity by  
>>>>>>>> tracking
>>>>>>>> both when fonts should fit to the box size and when the box  
>>>>>>>> size
>>>>>>>> should fit to the font.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll take a look at the big text block clicking issue now.   
>>>>>>>> Do you
>>>>>>>> have an example patch?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Long as there's a way to fix a problem I'm having:  in message
>>>>>>>>> boxes with
>>>>>>>>> many lines of text, you can easily click on one character and
>>>>>>>>> select one above
>>>>>>>>> it... it gets very confusing.  (Fedora 13 out-of-box).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm guessing that in the current version the GUI simply  
>>>>>>>>> tells Pd
>>>>>>>>> what size
>>>>>>>>> the font ought to have had instead of the genuine one.  Pd  
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> easily
>>>>>>>>> expand the box to the ought-to size (at least optionally for  
>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>> wishing
>>>>>>>>> to make cross-platform patches) but should know about the  
>>>>>>>>> text's
>>>>>>>>> actual size
>>>>>>>>> anyway.  To be continued...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>>>> Miller
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 01:21:08AM -0400, Hans-Christoph  
>>>>>>>>> Steiner
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 23, 2010, at 7:01 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 01:39:08PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard  
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW I've been using Pd-Extended's Linux/OSX default font
>>>>>>>>>>>> size as the
>>>>>>>>>>>> basis for all my patches for making my last 400 patches  
>>>>>>>>>>>> or so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've used Pd vanilla for all my patches so far, with a "10"
>>>>>>>>>>> font-size,
>>>>>>>>>>> whatever that is in pixels. I know, that Pd-extended uses  
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>> layout for several years now, which makes patches look wrong
>>>>>>>>>>> when you
>>>>>>>>>>> load them in Pd vanilla and the other way around. I have  
>>>>>>>>>>> not much
>>>>>>>>>>> interest to discuss the differences between vanilla and Pd- 
>>>>>>>>>>> x,
>>>>>>>>>>> as I am
>>>>>>>>>>> hoping the two to unify again with the gui-rewrite. So I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>>>>>> change my preferences to whatever will be the new vanilla,  
>>>>>>>>>>> but I'd
>>>>>>>>>>> prefer to not do again that with every release or with  
>>>>>>>>>>> every new
>>>>>>>>>>> Courier-like font that pops up on the Internets' Top 10  
>>>>>>>>>>> console font
>>>>>>>>>>> lists and is so much better than the previous ones.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unless Miller changes it in the future, Pd 0.43 should have  
>>>>>>>>>> the same
>>>>>>>>>> boxes sizes that Pd-extended has had for a couple  
>>>>>>>>>> versions.  That
>>>>>>>>>> was one of my goals with the GUI rewrite.  Its a bug if  
>>>>>>>>>> that's not
>>>>>>>>>> the case.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The arc of history bends towards justice.     - Dr. Martin  
>>>>>>>>>> Luther
>>>>>>>>>> King, Jr.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if  
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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