[PD] Font weirdness with 0.43test

Hans-Christoph Steiner hans at at.or.at
Fri Aug 27 18:48:04 CEST 2010


I plan on porting the Pd-eztended color scheme to the new 0.43 code, nabe some new ideas will come out of that.

.hc

"Bernardo Barros" <bernardobarros2 at gmail.com> wrote:

>Are you planning some kind of colours for some kind of 'syntax
>colouring' support for the boxes (message/number/audio gen/video etc.)
>and cords (audio non-audio)? This should be less problematic lhen the
>font size issue, shouldn't it?
>
>2010/8/26 Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>:
>>
>> Looks like here are the options:
>>
>> - have boxes fit around fixed font sizes and have different box sizes on
>> each platform (vanilla up til 0.42)
>>
>> - have font width fit into fixed box sizes and have long texts overrun the
>> bottom of boxes (Pd-extended since 0.40)
>>
>> - hopefully the best for now, have the width, then height fit into the fixed
>> box sizes, and use fonts that are known to work the best.  I attached a
>> patch which implements this and it seems to work pretty well.  I discovered
>> that the fixed box sizes were different than Pd-extended so I synced them up
>> so layout should be the same everywhere.
>>
>>
>>  (apply patch with "git am" to accept it as it).
>>
>> .hc
>>
>>
>> On Aug 26, 2010, at 2:43 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>
>>> OK.. but for 0.43... is there a stopgap?  I can't think of any way to
>>> get text editing working (i.e., getting the character you click on to
>>> be the one Pd sees you click on) except by going back to status quo.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> MIller
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 01:54:15PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 26, 2010, at 12:52 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My machine is running 8.5... but I don't think it's good to have
>>>>> Pd's default font choice come out all wrong... ideally, it should do
>>>>> something reasonable no matter what the font (well, at least if it's
>>>>> fixed-pitch).  At the very least, Pd has to know the correct font
>>>>> metrics... and it seems now not to.
>>>>
>>>> I should add, given my experience, I don't think this is a realistic
>>>> goal without major surgery.  Its something I've put a lot of work
>>>> into trying to get working.  My experience tells me that the best
>>>> bet is using a default font.
>>>>
>>>> Even better would be making the pd <--> pd-gui communication not
>>>> deal with pixel values and mouse motion, but instead logical
>>>> operations. For example, instead of pd knowing anything about the
>>>> text editing operation, that should happen entirely in the gui.
>>>> Then once the editing operation is complete, the GUI would send the
>>>> result to pd.
>>>>
>>>> .hc
>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps a solution for cross-platform patching (such as for making
>>>>> help
>>>>> files) could be to say "this will look woerd on other machines unless
>>>>> you use font <blaz> to develope the patch so that you see the
>>>>> canonical
>>>>> sizes.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers
>>>>> M
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 04:18:49PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is the answer to this font problem:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - use Tcl/Tk 8.5 or newer, Tcl 8.4 is very flawed (see archives for
>>>>>> discussion, basically it makes bad guesses and assigns them to the
>>>>>> fontname "courier")
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - use one of these fonts: {"Courier 10 Pitch" "DejaVu Sans Mono" \
>>>>>>     "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono" "Droid Sans Mono" "Andale Mono"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anything else and you'll have strange results.  In order to have
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> font support, we need to do some major surgery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 13:38 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Long as there's a way to fix a problem I'm having:  in message
>>>>>>> boxes with
>>>>>>> many lines of text, you can easily click on one character and
>>>>>>> select one above
>>>>>>> it... it gets very confusing.  (Fedora 13 out-of-box).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm guessing that in the current version the GUI simply tells
>>>>>>> Pd what size
>>>>>>> the font ought to have had instead of the genuine one.  Pd
>>>>>>> could easily
>>>>>>> expand the box to the ought-to size (at least optionally for
>>>>>>> those wishing
>>>>>>> to make cross-platform patches) but should know about the
>>>>>>> text's actual size
>>>>>>> anyway.  To be continued...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>> Miller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 01:21:08AM -0400, Hans-Christoph
>>>>>>> Steiner wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 23, 2010, at 7:01 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 01:39:08PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTW I've been using Pd-Extended's Linux/OSX default font
>>>>>>>>>> size as the
>>>>>>>>>> basis for all my patches for making my last 400 patches or so.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've used Pd vanilla for all my patches so far, with a
>>>>>>>>> "10" font-size,
>>>>>>>>> whatever that is in pixels. I know, that Pd-extended uses some
>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>> layout for several years now, which makes patches look
>>>>>>>>> wrong when you
>>>>>>>>> load them in Pd vanilla and the other way around. I have not much
>>>>>>>>> interest to discuss the differences between vanilla and
>>>>>>>>> Pd-x, as I am
>>>>>>>>> hoping the two to unify again with the gui-rewrite. So I'm
>>>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>>>> change my preferences to whatever will be the new vanilla, but I'd
>>>>>>>>> prefer to not do again that with every release or with every new
>>>>>>>>> Courier-like font that pops up on the Internets' Top 10
>>>>>>>>> console font
>>>>>>>>> lists and is so much better than the previous ones.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unless Miller changes it in the future, Pd 0.43 should have
>>>>>>>> the same
>>>>>>>> boxes sizes that Pd-extended has had for a couple versions.  That
>>>>>>>> was one of my goals with the GUI rewrite.  Its a bug if that's not
>>>>>>>> the case.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The arc of history bends towards justice.     - Dr. Martin Luther
>>>>>>>> King, Jr.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally
>>>> for machines to execute.
>>>> - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals
>> a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity,
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>>
>>
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