matju at artengine.ca
Mon May 23 18:37:29 CEST 2011
On Fri, 20 May 2011, Chris McCormick wrote:
> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 05:12:09PM +0200, Bryan Jurish wrote:
>> If forty-two trees fall in a forest and no one is around to count them, __forty-two__ trees have still fallen.
> I am not sure about that. To think is to model small chunks of the
> universe. Very small chunks, quite inaccurately. The thought itself, the
> model, exists in the physical universe, as part of a human brain. In the
> words of Carl Sagan, "we are a way for the Universe to know itself."
Ok. You guys are confusing « construct » with « mere construct ».
You both agree that there _ideas_ that are _made_ and that are kept or
rejected on the basis of whether they are useful to talk about reality.
The number «42» exists in nature in this way : it is a pattern that cause
human minds to come up with a concept that is the number «42» in order to
describe what's going on.
> When you look at a Salvador Dali painting, where does it exist? I think
> it exists physically encoded on the chemical-electrical substrate of
> your brain. I don't think it exists outside of that.
Dammit Chris, it's a PAINTING. It's made of PAINT.
Even when YOU look at it. ;)
(and non-paint reproductions are made of something else that isn't in the
> The painting itself exists as chemicals on canvas, but until someone
> looks at it, models it, computes it with their brain, the scene it
> depicts does not exist anywhere in physical reality.
The depicted scene is not the painting itself.
I'm trying to say « the map is not the territory » in another way so that
I get understood.
you need to look at this (copy of a) painting instead :
or the modern version on the side of the Royal Victoria College of
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
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