[PD] Pd-extended 0.43 updates: lots of new editing features

Hans-Christoph Steiner hans at at.or.at
Mon Jul 11 04:24:13 CEST 2011


On Jul 10, 2011, at 2:00 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

>
>
> --- On Sun, 7/10/11, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at> wrote:
>
>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
>> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.43 updates: lots of new editing  
>> features
>> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <jancsika at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "Ivica Ico Bukvic" <ico at vt.edu>, pd-list at iem.at
>> Date: Sunday, July 10, 2011, 7:25 PM
>>
>> On Jul 9, 2011, at 8:07 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Sat, 7/9/11, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.43 updates: lots
>> of new editing
>>>> features
>>>> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <jancsika at yahoo.com>
>>>> Cc: "Ivica Ico Bukvic" <ico at vt.edu>, pd-list at iem.at
>>>> Date: Saturday, July 9, 2011, 10:38 PM
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 9, 2011, at 1:48 AM, Jonathan Wilkes
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Sat, 7/9/11, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>> <hans at at.or.at>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem with forks is if improvements
>> don't
>>>> migrate
>>>>>> upstream.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it's both a problem-with and a
>> cause-of.
>>>>
>>>> Yup, that makes sense.
>>>>
>>>>>> Then we don't benefit from sharing the
>>>>>> fixes.  Making things migrate
>> upstream takes
>>>> time in
>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> How does one figure out who has the
>> responsibility to
>>>> make sure
>>>>> things migrate upstream (for example:
>> [initbang] and
>>>> [closebang])?
>>>>
>>>> Mostly by someone deciding its important enough
>> that they
>>>> want to work
>>>> on it themself, and then lots of testing and
>>>> communication.
>>>
>>> Ok.  So in patch id#2838176, what is Guenter's
>> idea for a clean
>>> implementation of tooltips that you were referring
>> to?  I didn't
>>> find anything on the user or dev list.
>>
>> Hmm, I can't remember what Günter's proposal was, but I do
>> have a
>> vague idea of how to do it cleanly.  I think it should
>> be similar to
>> the way its done in Max/MSP.  Basically there is a
>> standard function,
>> something like nlet_info(), which returns the tooltip
>> info.
>
> Where would one define the standard function?

On page 32 of this document:
http://peabody.sapp.org/class/dmp2/read/WritingMax_MSPExternals.pdf

You can see the 'assist' message.  The Max GUI sends the 'assist'  
message to an objectclass when you hover above an inlet or outlet,  
then its up to the objectclass to implement a function which copies  
the text into a provider buffer.  Then the Max GUI displays that text.

I guess we might as well just copy the interface of Max/MSP.  It seems  
very Max/Pd-ish, and straightforward.

>> Pd would
>> then check whether an object had that function when it
>> loaded the
>> binary, and if so register it in the tooltips.
>
> This brings up an issue I've been wondering about since learning a  
> little more about the canvas editor: why does the pd gui send  
> 'motion' messages to pd?  Why not, for example, just have a tag for  
> an inlet rectangle and bind <Enter> and <Leave> to it?  Then you'd  
> only be sending messages from the gui for the events you care about,  
> instead of tons of "motion" messages that don't trigger anything.

I agree that the GUI should really handle the motion and guts of the  
interaction, and 'pd' should just handle the logical messages like  
"object selected".

The original design of Pd was to have as much of the logic in 'pd'  
itself, for better or worse.

.hc


>
> -Jonathan
>
>>
>> .hc
>>
>>
>>>>>> Try getting a patch into the Linux
>> kernel,
>>>>>> that'll make Pd seem like cake ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I would hope that making changes to the
>> core of
>>>> the largest
>>>>> free software project in the history of
>> computing is a
>>>> wee bit more
>>>>> difficult than making changes to Pd.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, there are much bigger projects than
>> Linux, things
>>>> like
>>>> Debian are quite a bit larger in scale.
>>>
>>> I read a white paper on total development cost of a
>> linux distro and
>>> just remembered "linux".  I think the distro in
>> the paper was Fedora
>>> 9, which was estimated to be almost an order of
>> magnitude more
>>> expensive than the Linux kernel.
>>>
>>> -Jonathan
>>>
>>>>
>>>> .hc
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Jonathan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>> anything assigned to Miller and
>> reviewed
>>>>>> positively by
>>>>>>>> IOhannes I'm
>>>>>>>> going to defer any action on until
>> Miller
>>>>>> responds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Jonathan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at
>>>>>>>>>> mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and
>> account-management
>>>> ->
>>>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "[T]he greatest purveyor of violence in
>> the world
>>>> today
>>>>>> [is] my own government." - Martin Luther
>> King,
>>>> Jr.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     http://at.or.at/hans/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> The arc of history bends towards justice.
>>    - Dr. Martin Luther
>> King, Jr.
>>
>>
>>



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