[PD] Fwd: Variable number of objects?

[Ingo]

> Why would you have control messages going if switch~ is off?

Because the voice gets assigned to a certain midi channel when it receives a
[noteon] and has to keep receiving all midi controllers on that channel
until the envelope release has finished. Then the next voice will play on
that same midi channel. There is nothing that cuts off the control inlets or
[send/receive]s automatically because the audio gets switched off.
So when you play 16 notes in a row all 16 voices are set up to receive
control data on that particular midi channel. Everything in the control
domain, like LFOs, [metro]s and [line]s keep running and keep calculating
pitch, volume, filter offsets and so on ...

Turning off the [receive]s would be very complicated if not impossible which
is why they need to be avoided wherever it can be done. But all of the wired
inlets can be cut off manually together with the [switch~] and turned back
on when the next note will play that voice. On top of it all 500 parameters
need to be updated to the current state of the external control input and
the current preset data when played anew.

Ingo


> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Jaime Oliver [mailto:jaime.oliver2 at gmail.com]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. September 2011 19:56
> An: Ingo
> Cc: Jonathan Wilkes; Pd List
> Betreff: Re: [PD] Fwd: Variable number of objects?
> 
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Ingo <ingo at miamiwave.com> wrote:
> > One shouldn't underestimate the cpu load when several hundreds of midi
> > controllers per second are modulating hundreds of parameters and the get
> > multiplied by 16 voices constantly because the control messages are
> still
> > active all of the time.
> 
> Why would you have control messages going if switch~ is off?
> 
> J
> 
> 
> >
> > Ingo
> >
> >
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: Ingo <ingo at miamiwave.com>
> >> > To: 'Roman Haefeli' <reduzent at gmail.com>; 'Ludwig Maes'
> >> <ludwig.maes at gmail.com>
> >> > Cc: 'Pd List' <pd-list at iem.at>
> >> > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 5:33 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [PD] Fwd:  Variable number of objects?
> >> >
> >> > Actually, I just tried again to simply copy a couple of voices and it
> >> only
> >> > took a fraction of a second with a very short dropout - even with the
> >> dsp
> >> > on.
> >> >
> >> > I have recently installed Natty instead of Lucid on a new machine.
> Maybe
> >> it
> >> > has something to do with realloc that Mathieu mentioned.
> >> >
> >> > So it looks like dynamic patching of voices isn't "that" much of a
> >> > problem
> >> > here anymore. It still takes 7-8 seconds to create 16 voices in my
> case
> >> with
> >> > the dsp off (12 with the dsp on) but that's still faster than
> restarting
> >> the
> >> > patch. I would never have checked again if nobody would have
> mentioned
> >> it.
> >> >
> >> > I have attached a patch that I used for testing. These voices were
> >> receiving
> >> > their input with [receive] so no connections were needed. If you are
> >> using
> >> > wired inlets you will have to dynamically add the connections of
> course.
> >> >
> >> > I added a cut & paste at the end because for some reasons the voices
> >> > didn't
> >> > get initialized correctly. Not sure if this is needed for other
> >> > voice-abstractions.
> >> >
> >> > Ingo
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>  -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >> >>  Von: pd-list-bounces at iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces at iem.at] Im
> Auftrag
> >> von
> >> >>  Roman Haefeli
> >> >>  Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. September 2011 08:36
> >> >>  An: Ludwig Maes
> >> >>  Cc: Pd List
> >> >>  Betreff: Re: [PD] Fwd: Variable number of objects?
> >> >>
> >> >>  On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 19:29 +0200, Ludwig Maes wrote:
> >> >>  >
> >> >>  >
> >> >>  > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> >>  > From: Ludwig Maes <ludwig.maes at gmail.com>
> >> >>  > Date: 28 September 2011 19:29
> >> >>  > Subject: Re: [PD] Variable number of objects?
> >> >>  > To: Ingo <ingo at miamiwave.com>
> >> >>  >
> >> >>  >
> >> >>  > I actually meant more in general, also for non-~ signals (i.e.
> also
> >> >>  > control rate .pd patches). I referred to polysynth such that
> people
> >> >>  > would see more easily what I meant. Are there really no such
> >> >>  > primitives? That seems like quite a restriction...
> >> >>  >
> >> >>  > How can that take 10 seconds?? I dont see what would cause such a
> >> huge
> >> >>  > overhead, i'd expect an increase in computations & memory
> >> > though (say
> >> >>  > from 10 voices to 11: 10% increase in cpu workload & ram
> dedicated
> >> > to
> >> >>  > these voices..., I fail to see what would necessitate a long
> >> >>  > initialization...)
> >> >>  >
> >> >>  > also, how is it done even with the long delays?
> >> >>  >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>  As I understand it, the whole DSP is recompiled whenever it is
> >> changed.
> >> >>  So, if you have a very large patch (and Ingo seems to be an expert
> in
> >> >>  very large patches) and you create another voice, it's easily
> possible
> >> >>  to eat up quite some time.
> >> >>
> >> >>  Also, it's probably much slower the first time, if the voice
> >> > abstraction
> >> >>  is built of many other abstractions, which need to be read from
> disk.
> >> >>
> >> >>  But I guess you are right about the increase in CPU workload
> _after_
> >> the
> >> >>  DSP graph has been recompiled: A switch from 10 two 11 instances is
> >> >>  expected to show only an increase of 10% in CPU usage.
> >> >>
> >> >>  It's been said, that often you can gain quite some time while
> turning
> >> >>  off DSP during dynamic instantiation. But I guess, this makes only
> a
> >> >>  difference when performing several instantiations at the same time.
> >> When
> >> >>  DSP is on, each cycle would cause a complete DSP graph
> recompilation,
> >> >>  whereas when DSP is off, it's only recompiled once (after turning
> it
> >> on
> >> >>  again).
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>  Roman
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>  _______________________________________________
> >> >>  Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> >> >>  UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> >> >>  http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> >> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> >> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Jaime E Oliver LR
> 
> www.jaimeoliver.pe
> 
> 858 750 0924 (cel)
> 858 202 1522 (home)