[PD] finding objects ?
Jonathan Wilkes
jancsika at yahoo.com
Tue Sep 4 22:04:08 CEST 2012
----- Original Message -----
> From: Ivica Ico Bukvic <ico at vt.edu>
> To: 'Jonathan Wilkes' <jancsika at yahoo.com>; 'Фывапр Олджэвич' <tofuckof at inbox.ru>; 'João Pais' <jmmmpais at googlemail.com>
> Cc: pd-list at iem.at; 'IOhannes m zmoelnig' <zmoelnig at iem.at>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:45 PM
> Subject: RE: [PD] finding objects ?
>
>> > Jonathan, I will be willing to help with introducing indexing option
>> > into the search plugin. I think it is essential to making this a
>> > useful addition to pd-l2ork. As it is right now, it requires too much
>> > time, particularly on low power devices (e.g. netbooks). I'll also
>> > gladly add a flag (if you like) inside pd-l2ork to force re-indexing
>> > (or maybe it should simply reindex at each startup). If anyone else
> wishes
>> to contribute, let me know...
>>
>> That sounds good. Hans suggested looking at Xapian, which says it has
>> bindings for Tcl. Might be easier than doing indexing in Tcl.
>>
>> To be user friendly I think there needs to be a "first use"
> message in the main
>> page of the search that directs the user to click a link to do the initial
>> index. (If you do it automatically you force the netbook user to wait a
> long
>> time-- same problem for doing it at startup.) Once the index exists I can
> then
>> just have the link available without the message and people can reindex as
>> they see fit.
>>
>> The other possibility is that the plugin will display the message to
> reindex
>> every time the docs change, but that would only work if the time it takes
> to
>> check is much smaller than the time it takes to index.
>>
>> Is there a way to quickly get a hash of all the doc files?
>
> I am of the conviction that the more automated things are, the better the
> experience for the user. Hence, if this only adds a few seconds at the start-up
> (assuming it is optimized enough, perhaps relying on a secondary tool to do
> indexing that returns a list to tcl), I am all for that...
I'd _much_ rather have the automation happen when the user decides to click
the button that opens the "Search dialog". Even better, I'd like the index to be built
only at the moment that the search plugin initiates a search, and have my plugin
display a message to the user that says, "Building an index from the Pd docs.
This will happen on the first search of each new instance of Pd. This way
if new docs get added they will be reflected in your results the next time you run
Pd. If you've made it all the way through this paragraph and the index hasn't
finished then we haven't done a good job of making the index fast enough to not
bother you, but at least you know the problem probably lies with the search feature.
I mean, imagine if we just made Pd reindex every time Pd started and you ran into
this problem. You wouldn't know if this was the culprit or whether it was one of
a thousand other things Pd is silently doing when you start it. You can thank Jonathan
for saving you the work of figuring that out, as well as blame him for not making the
indexing happen fast enough.
[bang; error list You're I'm welcome. sorry., set(
|
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|
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|
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"
-Jonathan
>
>>
>> -Jonathan
>>
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: pd-list-bounces at iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces at iem.at] On
>> >> Behalf Of Jonathan Wilkes
>> >> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 11:08 PM
>> >> To: Фывапр Олджэвич; João Pais
>> >> Cc: pd-list at iem.at; IOhannes m zmoelnig
>> >> Subject: Re: [PD] finding objects ?
>> >>
>> >> Hello serg,
>> >> I made an attempt to build a search engine awhile back:
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://puredata.info/Members/jancsika/searchandbrowseplugin/view?sear
>> >> chterm=search%20plugin
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This plugin is designed to be exactly what you are looking for--
> I
>> >> know because I had the same problems when starting out with Pd
> and
>> >> read similarly dreadful responses.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It is a GUI plugin. Use the links Iohannes provided to install
> it.
>> >>
>> >> The plugin is designed to work with Pd-extended. (I also
>> >> back-ported a version to use with Pd-l2ork but it isn't
> included
>> >> there yet.) It
>> > searches for
>> >> help patches in all the default sys and lib
>> >>
>> >> paths, plus any extra ones you specify in the path dialog (though
>> >> this
>> > dialog
>> >> may have been removed in a recent version-- I don't
> remember).
>> >>
>> >> Full text search works with all help patches. Searching by using
>> >> the
>> > keywords
>> >> listed toward the bottom of the main search page will only return
>> >> results
>> > for
>> >> help patches that have keyword metadata (i.e., help patches which
>> >> I've revised to be searchable, which is maybe half of
> everything in
>> > Pd-extended).
>> >>
>> >> For me full text searches tend to take a few seconds on my
> GNU/Linux
>> >> machine and much longer on OSX. (In Windows the first search
> takes
>> >> forever but subsequent searches are somewhat faster.) I think
>> >> improving the speed would require building an index and would be
> a lot
>> more work.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> You won't get results for classes that don't have help
> patches, but
>> > then if the
>> >> developer was too lazy to document what the object does then
> I'm
>> >> sure
>> > they
>> >> used all the time saved to make the object work flawlessly... :)
>> >>
>> >> Speaking of dev laziness-- there are many objects which have
> nearly
>> >> empty help patches. If you run into this, be sure to try
> clicking
>> >> the little
>> > "info" icon
>> >> next to the search result. It will bring up the README.txt file
> for
>> >> the corresponding library which often will give you a few more
> clues
>> >> about the object in question. You can also click the folder icon
> to
>> >> open an external
>> > file
>> >> browser to see the full contents of an external library (like the
>> >>
>> >> binaries and and other non-doc files).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Let me know if there are any keyword categories that would be
> useful
>> >> to add to the main search page.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >> Jonathan
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >________________________________
>> >> > From: Фывапр Олджэвич <tofuckof at inbox.ru>
>> >> >To: João Pais <jmmmpais at googlemail.com>
>> >> >Cc: pd-list at iem.at; IOhannes m zmoelnig
> <zmoelnig at iem.at>
>> >> >Sent: Monday, September 3, 2012 6:16 AM
>> >> >Subject: Re: [PD] finding objects ?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Thankyou for your list !
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >\\ I know, although it's never actual.
>> >> >
>> >> >- Why ? I mean that if I don't know all the objects by
> memory, and
>> > I need
>> >> some function to be done - I need easy search by categorys and so
> on
>> >> - with descriptions... it is much easear, than asking List every
>> >> time... and also
>> > helps
>> >> to learn other objects faster.
>> >> >
>> >> >\\Also the object completion plugin helps to find
>> objects (pd-ext
>> >> 0.43).
>> >> >
>> >> >- what is it ? is it complemented with Extended 0.43 ? or
> should it
>> >> be
>> > loaded
>> >> apart ? and does it work for Windows ?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >cheers !
>> >> >
>> >> >serg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:24:09 +0200 от João Pais
>> >> <jmmmpais at googlemail.com>:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> On 2012-09-03 00:19, ?????? ???????? wrote:
>> >> >>>> Dear list !
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Where can I find the most complete PD-objects
> and commands
>> >> >>>> reference, please ?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> right click on the object.
>> >> >>> select help.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>for pd-vanilla, right-click anywhere in an empty space,
> and select
>> > help.
>> >> >>for pd-extended, there isn't one. my list (attached)
> is the
>> > most complete
>> >> >>I know, although it's never actual. the pd-floss
> website also
>> > has a list,
>> >> >>but only with part of the objects in this document.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>> And why it is not on the main site -
> puredata.info ?
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> because with help-patches that yre on your computer
> you do not
>> > have
>> >> to
>> >> >>> be online and you can copy&paste interesting
> stuff.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>or rather more because development of pd-extended
> externals is a
>> > bit
>> >> >>chaotic, some developers don't do proper
> documentation, there
>> > isn't a
>> >> >>system to control the quality (or existence) of
> documentation,
>> > etc...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Jonathan Wilkes has done lots of work with pddp to update
> the
>> >> >>documentation. Pd-Ext 0.43 has much more ressources,
> including
>> > better
>> >> help
>> >> >>patches for pd-vanilla. Also the object completion plugin
> helps to
>> > find
>> >> >>objects (pd-ext 0.43).
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>João
>> >> >>
>> >> >>_______________________________________________
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>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
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>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
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