[PD] finding objects ?
Miller Puckette
msp at ucsd.edu
Tue Sep 4 22:41:14 CEST 2012
Pd vanilla starts and quits in 0.2 sec total. (1.6 gHz Core 2) -- without
GUI it can be done in about a millisecond (so you can use Pd in a batch process
and run it thousands of times if you want :) -- I see this as an important
advantage.
cheers
Miller
On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 01:04:08PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > From: Ivica Ico Bukvic <ico at vt.edu>
> > To: 'Jonathan Wilkes' <jancsika at yahoo.com>; 'Фывапр Олджэвич' <tofuckof at inbox.ru>; 'João Pais' <jmmmpais at googlemail.com>
> > Cc: pd-list at iem.at; 'IOhannes m zmoelnig' <zmoelnig at iem.at>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:45 PM
> > Subject: RE: [PD] finding objects ?
> >
> >> > Jonathan, I will be willing to help with introducing indexing option
> >> > into the search plugin. I think it is essential to making this a
> >> > useful addition to pd-l2ork. As it is right now, it requires too much
> >> > time, particularly on low power devices (e.g. netbooks). I'll also
> >> > gladly add a flag (if you like) inside pd-l2ork to force re-indexing
> >> > (or maybe it should simply reindex at each startup). If anyone else
> > wishes
> >> to contribute, let me know...
> >>
> >> That sounds good. Hans suggested looking at Xapian, which says it has
> >> bindings for Tcl. Might be easier than doing indexing in Tcl.
> >>
> >> To be user friendly I think there needs to be a "first use"
> > message in the main
> >> page of the search that directs the user to click a link to do the initial
> >> index. (If you do it automatically you force the netbook user to wait a
> > long
> >> time-- same problem for doing it at startup.) Once the index exists I can
> > then
> >> just have the link available without the message and people can reindex as
> >> they see fit.
> >>
> >> The other possibility is that the plugin will display the message to
> > reindex
> >> every time the docs change, but that would only work if the time it takes
> > to
> >> check is much smaller than the time it takes to index.
> >>
> >> Is there a way to quickly get a hash of all the doc files?
> >
> > I am of the conviction that the more automated things are, the better the
> > experience for the user. Hence, if this only adds a few seconds at the start-up
> > (assuming it is optimized enough, perhaps relying on a secondary tool to do
> > indexing that returns a list to tcl), I am all for that...
>
> I'd _much_ rather have the automation happen when the user decides to click
> the button that opens the "Search dialog". Even better, I'd like the index to be built
> only at the moment that the search plugin initiates a search, and have my plugin
> display a message to the user that says, "Building an index from the Pd docs.
> This will happen on the first search of each new instance of Pd. This way
> if new docs get added they will be reflected in your results the next time you run
> Pd. If you've made it all the way through this paragraph and the index hasn't
> finished then we haven't done a good job of making the index fast enough to not
> bother you, but at least you know the problem probably lies with the search feature.
> I mean, imagine if we just made Pd reindex every time Pd started and you ran into
> this problem. You wouldn't know if this was the culprit or whether it was one of
> a thousand other things Pd is silently doing when you start it. You can thank Jonathan
> for saving you the work of figuring that out, as well as blame him for not making the
> indexing happen fast enough.
>
> [bang; error list You're I'm welcome. sorry., set(
> |
> [expr $f2+2; $f2%2+1 ]x[t a]
> |
> [adddollar $1(
> |
> [s error]
>
> [r error]
> |
> [ (
> |
> [print error]
>
> "
>
> -Jonathan
>
> >
> >>
> >> -Jonathan
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: pd-list-bounces at iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces at iem.at] On
> >> >> Behalf Of Jonathan Wilkes
> >> >> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 11:08 PM
> >> >> To: Фывапр Олджэвич; João Pais
> >> >> Cc: pd-list at iem.at; IOhannes m zmoelnig
> >> >> Subject: Re: [PD] finding objects ?
> >> >>
> >> >> Hello serg,
> >> >> I made an attempt to build a search engine awhile back:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> http://puredata.info/Members/jancsika/searchandbrowseplugin/view?sear
> >> >> chterm=search%20plugin
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> This plugin is designed to be exactly what you are looking for--
> > I
> >> >> know because I had the same problems when starting out with Pd
> > and
> >> >> read similarly dreadful responses.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> It is a GUI plugin. Use the links Iohannes provided to install
> > it.
> >> >>
> >> >> The plugin is designed to work with Pd-extended. (I also
> >> >> back-ported a version to use with Pd-l2ork but it isn't
> > included
> >> >> there yet.) It
> >> > searches for
> >> >> help patches in all the default sys and lib
> >> >>
> >> >> paths, plus any extra ones you specify in the path dialog (though
> >> >> this
> >> > dialog
> >> >> may have been removed in a recent version-- I don't
> > remember).
> >> >>
> >> >> Full text search works with all help patches. Searching by using
> >> >> the
> >> > keywords
> >> >> listed toward the bottom of the main search page will only return
> >> >> results
> >> > for
> >> >> help patches that have keyword metadata (i.e., help patches which
> >> >> I've revised to be searchable, which is maybe half of
> > everything in
> >> > Pd-extended).
> >> >>
> >> >> For me full text searches tend to take a few seconds on my
> > GNU/Linux
> >> >> machine and much longer on OSX. (In Windows the first search
> > takes
> >> >> forever but subsequent searches are somewhat faster.) I think
> >> >> improving the speed would require building an index and would be
> > a lot
> >> more work.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> You won't get results for classes that don't have help
> > patches, but
> >> > then if the
> >> >> developer was too lazy to document what the object does then
> > I'm
> >> >> sure
> >> > they
> >> >> used all the time saved to make the object work flawlessly... :)
> >> >>
> >> >> Speaking of dev laziness-- there are many objects which have
> > nearly
> >> >> empty help patches. If you run into this, be sure to try
> > clicking
> >> >> the little
> >> > "info" icon
> >> >> next to the search result. It will bring up the README.txt file
> > for
> >> >> the corresponding library which often will give you a few more
> > clues
> >> >> about the object in question. You can also click the folder icon
> > to
> >> >> open an external
> >> > file
> >> >> browser to see the full contents of an external library (like the
> >> >>
> >> >> binaries and and other non-doc files).
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Let me know if there are any keyword categories that would be
> > useful
> >> >> to add to the main search page.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Best,
> >> >> Jonathan
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >________________________________
> >> >> > From: Фывапр Олджэвич <tofuckof at inbox.ru>
> >> >> >To: João Pais <jmmmpais at googlemail.com>
> >> >> >Cc: pd-list at iem.at; IOhannes m zmoelnig
> > <zmoelnig at iem.at>
> >> >> >Sent: Monday, September 3, 2012 6:16 AM
> >> >> >Subject: Re: [PD] finding objects ?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Thankyou for your list !
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >\\ I know, although it's never actual.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >- Why ? I mean that if I don't know all the objects by
> > memory, and
> >> > I need
> >> >> some function to be done - I need easy search by categorys and so
> > on
> >> >> - with descriptions... it is much easear, than asking List every
> >> >> time... and also
> >> > helps
> >> >> to learn other objects faster.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >\\Also the object completion plugin helps to find
> >> objects (pd-ext
> >> >> 0.43).
> >> >> >
> >> >> >- what is it ? is it complemented with Extended 0.43 ? or
> > should it
> >> >> be
> >> > loaded
> >> >> apart ? and does it work for Windows ?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >cheers !
> >> >> >
> >> >> >serg
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:24:09 +0200 от João Pais
> >> >> <jmmmpais at googlemail.com>:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> On 2012-09-03 00:19, ?????? ???????? wrote:
> >> >> >>>> Dear list !
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>> Where can I find the most complete PD-objects
> > and commands
> >> >> >>>> reference, please ?
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> right click on the object.
> >> >> >>> select help.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>for pd-vanilla, right-click anywhere in an empty space,
> > and select
> >> > help.
> >> >> >>for pd-extended, there isn't one. my list (attached)
> > is the
> >> > most complete
> >> >> >>I know, although it's never actual. the pd-floss
> > website also
> >> > has a list,
> >> >> >>but only with part of the objects in this document.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>>> And why it is not on the main site -
> > puredata.info ?
> >> >> >>>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> because with help-patches that yre on your computer
> > you do not
> >> > have
> >> >> to
> >> >> >>> be online and you can copy&paste interesting
> > stuff.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>or rather more because development of pd-extended
> > externals is a
> >> > bit
> >> >> >>chaotic, some developers don't do proper
> > documentation, there
> >> > isn't a
> >> >> >>system to control the quality (or existence) of
> > documentation,
> >> > etc...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Jonathan Wilkes has done lots of work with pddp to update
> > the
> >> >> >>documentation. Pd-Ext 0.43 has much more ressources,
> > including
> >> > better
> >> >> help
> >> >> >>patches for pd-vanilla. Also the object completion plugin
> > helps to
> >> > find
> >> >> >>objects (pd-ext 0.43).
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>João
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>_______________________________________________
> >> >> >>Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> >> >> >>UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> >> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >_______________________________________________
> >> >> >Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
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> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
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> >> >
> >
>
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