[PD] finding objects ?

Miller Puckette msp at ucsd.edu
Tue Sep 4 22:41:14 CEST 2012


Pd vanilla starts and quits in 0.2 sec total. (1.6 gHz Core 2) -- without
GUI it can be done in about a millisecond (so you can use Pd in a batch process
and run it thousands of times if you want :) -- I see this as an important
advantage.

cheers
Miller

On Tue, Sep 04, 2012 at 01:04:08PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> > From: Ivica Ico Bukvic <ico at vt.edu>
> > To: 'Jonathan Wilkes' <jancsika at yahoo.com>; 'Фывапр Олджэвич' <tofuckof at inbox.ru>; 'João Pais' <jmmmpais at googlemail.com>
> > Cc: pd-list at iem.at; 'IOhannes m zmoelnig' <zmoelnig at iem.at>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:45 PM
> > Subject: RE: [PD] finding objects ?
> > 
> >>  > Jonathan, I will be willing to help with introducing indexing option
> >>  > into the search plugin. I think it is essential to making this a
> >>  > useful addition to pd-l2ork. As it is right now, it requires too much
> >>  > time, particularly on low power devices (e.g. netbooks). I'll also
> >>  > gladly add a flag (if you like) inside pd-l2ork to force re-indexing
> >>  > (or maybe it should simply reindex at each startup). If anyone else 
> > wishes
> >>  to contribute, let me know...
> >> 
> >>  That sounds good.  Hans suggested looking at Xapian, which says it has
> >>  bindings for Tcl.  Might be easier than doing indexing in Tcl.
> >> 
> >>  To be user friendly I think there needs to be a "first use" 
> > message in the main
> >>  page of the search that directs the user to click a link to do the initial
> >>  index.  (If you do it automatically you force the netbook user to wait a 
> > long
> >>  time-- same problem for doing it at startup.)  Once the index exists I can 
> > then
> >>  just have the link available without the message and people can reindex as
> >>  they see fit.
> >> 
> >>  The other possibility is that the plugin will display the message to 
> > reindex
> >>  every time the docs change, but that would only work if the time it takes 
> > to
> >>  check is much smaller than the time it takes to index.
> >> 
> >>  Is there a way to quickly get a hash of all the doc files?
> > 
> > I am of the conviction that the more automated things are, the better the 
> > experience for the user. Hence, if this only adds a few seconds at the start-up 
> > (assuming it is optimized enough, perhaps relying on a secondary tool to do 
> > indexing that returns a list to tcl), I am all for that...
> 
> I'd _much_ rather have the automation happen when the user decides to click
> the button that opens the "Search dialog".  Even better, I'd like the index to be built
> only at the moment that the search plugin initiates a search, and have my plugin
> display a message to the user that says, "Building an index from the Pd docs.  
> This will happen on the first search of each new instance of Pd.  This way
> if new docs get added they will be reflected in your results the next time you run
> Pd.  If you've made it all the way through this paragraph and the index hasn't
> finished then we haven't done a good job of making the index fast enough to not
> bother you, but at least you know the problem probably lies with the search feature.
> I mean, imagine if we just made Pd reindex every time Pd started and you ran into
> this problem.  You wouldn't know if this was the culprit or whether it was one of
> a thousand other things Pd is silently doing when you start it.  You can thank Jonathan
> for saving you the work of figuring that out, as well as blame him for not making the
> indexing happen fast enough.
> 
> [bang; error list You're I'm welcome. sorry., set(
> |
> [expr $f2+2; $f2%2+1 ]x[t a]
> |
> [adddollar $1(
> |
> [s error]
> 
> [r error]
> |
> [ (
> |
> [print error]
> 
> "
> 
> -Jonathan
> 
> > 
> >> 
> >>  -Jonathan
> >> 
> >>  >
> >>  >>  -----Original Message-----
> >>  >>  From: pd-list-bounces at iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces at iem.at] On
> >>  >> Behalf Of  Jonathan Wilkes
> >>  >>  Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 11:08 PM
> >>  >>  To: Фывапр Олджэвич; João Pais
> >>  >>  Cc: pd-list at iem.at; IOhannes m zmoelnig
> >>  >>  Subject: Re: [PD] finding objects ?
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  Hello serg,
> >>  >>       I made an attempt to build a search engine awhile back:
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  http://puredata.info/Members/jancsika/searchandbrowseplugin/view?sear
> >>  >>  chterm=search%20plugin
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  This plugin is designed to be exactly what you are looking for-- 
> > I
> >>  >> know  because I had the same problems when starting out with Pd 
> > and
> >>  >> read  similarly dreadful responses.
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  It is a GUI plugin.  Use the links Iohannes provided to install 
> > it.
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  The plugin is designed to work with Pd-extended.  (I also
> >>  >> back-ported a  version to use with Pd-l2ork but it isn't 
> > included
> >>  >> there yet.)  It
> >>  > searches for
> >>  >>  help patches in all the default sys and lib
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  paths, plus any extra ones you specify in the path dialog (though
> >>  >> this
> >>  > dialog
> >>  >>  may have been removed in a recent version-- I don't 
> > remember).
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  Full text search works with all help patches.  Searching by using
> >>  >> the
> >>  > keywords
> >>  >>  listed toward the bottom of the main search page will only return
> >>  >> results
> >>  > for
> >>  >>  help patches that have keyword metadata (i.e., help patches which
> >>  >> I've  revised to be searchable, which is maybe half of 
> > everything in
> >>  > Pd-extended).
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  For me full text searches tend to take a few seconds on my 
> > GNU/Linux
> >>  >> machine and much longer on OSX.  (In Windows the first search 
> > takes
> >>  >> forever  but subsequent searches are somewhat faster.)  I think
> >>  >> improving the speed  would require building an index and would be 
> > a lot
> >>  more work.
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  You won't get results for classes that don't have help 
> > patches, but
> >>  > then if the
> >>  >>  developer was too lazy to document what the object does then 
> > I'm
> >>  >> sure
> >>  > they
> >>  >>  used all the time saved to make the object work flawlessly... :)
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  Speaking of dev laziness-- there are many objects which have 
> > nearly
> >>  >> empty  help patches.  If you run into this, be sure to try 
> > clicking
> >>  >> the little
> >>  > "info" icon
> >>  >>  next to the search result.  It will bring up the README.txt file 
> > for
> >>  >> the  corresponding library which often will give you a few more 
> > clues
> >>  >> about the  object in question.  You can also click the folder icon 
> > to
> >>  >> open an external
> >>  > file
> >>  >>  browser to see the full contents of an external library (like the
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  binaries and and other non-doc files).
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  Let me know if there are any keyword categories that would be 
> > useful
> >>  >> to add  to the main search page.
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  Best,
> >>  >>  Jonathan
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  >________________________________
> >>  >>  > From: Фывапр Олджэвич <tofuckof at inbox.ru>
> >>  >>  >To: João Pais <jmmmpais at googlemail.com>
> >>  >>  >Cc: pd-list at iem.at; IOhannes m zmoelnig 
> > <zmoelnig at iem.at>
> >>  >>  >Sent: Monday, September 3, 2012 6:16 AM
> >>  >>  >Subject: Re: [PD] finding objects ?
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >Thankyou for your list !
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >\\ I know, although it's never actual.
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >- Why ? I mean that if I don't know all the objects by 
> > memory, and
> >>  > I need
> >>  >>  some function to be done - I need easy search by categorys and so 
> > on
> >>  >> - with  descriptions...  it is much easear, than asking List every
> >>  >> time... and also
> >>  > helps
> >>  >>  to learn other objects faster.
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >\\Also the object completion plugin helps to find  
> >> objects (pd-ext
> >>  >> 0.43).
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >- what is it ? is it complemented with Extended 0.43 ? or 
> > should it
> >>  >> be
> >>  > loaded
> >>  >>  apart ? and does it work for Windows ?
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >cheers !
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >serg
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:24:09 +0200 от João Pais
> >>  >>  <jmmmpais at googlemail.com>:
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >>
> >>  >>  >>> On 2012-09-03 00:19, ?????? ???????? wrote:
> >>  >>  >>>> Dear list !
> >>  >>  >>>>
> >>  >>  >>>> Where can I find the most complete PD-objects 
> > and commands
> >>  >> >>>> reference, please ?
> >>  >>  >>>
> >>  >>  >>> right click on the object.
> >>  >>  >>> select help.
> >>  >>  >>
> >>  >>  >>for pd-vanilla, right-click anywhere in an empty space, 
> > and select
> >>  > help.
> >>  >>  >>for pd-extended, there isn't one. my list (attached) 
> > is the
> >>  > most complete
> >>  >>  >>I know, although it's never actual. the pd-floss 
> > website also
> >>  > has a list,
> >>  >>  >>but only with part of the objects in this document.
> >>  >>  >>
> >>  >>  >>
> >>  >>  >>>> And why it is not on the main site - 
> > puredata.info ?
> >>  >>  >>>>
> >>  >>  >>>
> >>  >>  >>> because with help-patches that yre on your computer 
> > you do not
> >>  > have
> >>  >>  to
> >>  >>  >>> be online and you can copy&paste interesting 
> > stuff.
> >>  >>  >>
> >>  >>  >>or rather more because development of pd-extended 
> > externals is a
> >>  > bit
> >>  >>  >>chaotic, some developers don't do proper 
> > documentation, there
> >>  > isn't a
> >>  >>  >>system to control the quality (or existence) of 
> > documentation,
> >>  > etc...
> >>  >>  >>
> >>  >>  >>Jonathan Wilkes has done lots of work with pddp to update 
> > the
> >>  >> >>documentation. Pd-Ext 0.43 has much more ressources, 
> > including
> >>  > better
> >>  >>  help
> >>  >>  >>patches for pd-vanilla. Also the object completion plugin 
> > helps to
> >>  > find
> >>  >>  >>objects (pd-ext 0.43).
> >>  >>  >>
> >>  >>  >>
> >>  >>  >>João
> >>  >>  >>
> >>  >>  >>_______________________________________________
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> >>  >>  >>
> >>  >>  >>
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >_______________________________________________
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> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>  >
> >>  >>
> >>  >>  _______________________________________________
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> > 
> 
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