[PD] GUI toolkits and custom GUIs WAS: Integra Live 1.5 released
Hans-Christoph Steiner
hans at at.or.at
Mon Jan 21 23:48:13 CET 2013
Sounds like a good idea, but I don't think that should block anyone from
starting. And having a real example to work with will make it much easier to
figure out how to convert the Tcl into something more generic. The graphic
ideas in Pd are almost all really simple: draw an object box, draw a message
box, draw an array, draw connections. And indeed I think the communications
between pd and pd-gui should be logical rather than graphical, i.e. "connect 0
1 2 5" instead of a line draw command.
.hc
On 01/21/2013 05:35 PM, Martin Peach wrote:
> Wouldn't it be a good idea to settle on a graphics metalanguage rather than
> translating tcl code to qt or whatever?
>
> Martin
>
>
> On 2013-01-21 15:11, Leandro da Mota Damasceno wrote:
>> so let's see...Who´s working with what so far?
>>
>> I´d love to join a team and start learning how to code with one of the
>> toolkits.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at
>> <mailto:hans at at.or.at>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> So all those interested in a new GUI should start working on it,
>> there is lots
>> of interest. Then we can incrementally change pd itself as there is
>> a need.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On 01/21/2013 02:48 PM, Leandro da Mota Damasceno wrote:
>> > You're right. Damn, you're always right :)
>> >
>> > So, just to know where we are right now... What have been tested/done
>> > regarding the GUIs toolkits so far? I think we should at least
>> have this
>> > set and go on from there...
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>> <hans at at.or.at <mailto:hans at at.or.at>>wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I think this is the general idea of what everyone wants to
>> support. But
>> >> the
>> >> way is actually takes shape is going to depend on whoever
>> actually does the
>> >> work. A great example of this is the PDDP (Pure Data Documentation
>> >> Project).
>> >> We had lots of design meetings and then no one implemented the
>> ideas. Then
>> >> Jonathan picked up from that what was interesting to him and
>> made the whole
>> >> meta help system, the search plugin, etc.
>> >>
>> >> The lesson there for me is that big design discussions only work
>> if the
>> >> people
>> >> involved them are willing to do the work to implement them.
>> Instead, I
>> >> think
>> >> for a more decentralized community like this one, we only should
>> nail down
>> >> the
>> >> key parts that everyone must use, then leave other decisions to
>> those who
>> >> are
>> >> implementing those parts.
>> >>
>> >> So that means I'm happy to help people write there own GUI, and I'll
>> >> definitely be involved in the work of making it possible with Pd.
>> >>
>> >> .hc
>> >>
>> >> On 01/21/2013 01:05 PM, Leandro da Mota Damasceno wrote:
>> >>> That sounded like a Lego approach. :)
>> >>>
>> >>> So the way I see it the GUI development should be in the most
>> seemless
>> >> way
>> >>> for the user, right?
>> >>>
>> >>> And we also have the problem between people who prefer a
>> simple, leaner
>> >> GUI
>> >>> approach (the classic PD, for instance) against people who
>> prefer a more
>> >>> sofisticated, and sexy GUI. And I believe both groups would
>> also like
>> >> some
>> >>> more knobs and stuff...
>> >>>
>> >>> so basically, we should at least have two options of gui: simple
>> >> (classic)
>> >>> or sophisticated (sexy). But it would be cool to make it open
>> enough to
>> >>> anyone develop their own or come up with new and customized
>> ones. that
>> >>> would make PD way cooler than Max/MSP or anything else. So for
>> that to
>> >> work
>> >>> (and now I must admit I really don't know the architecture
>> behind this
>> >> part
>> >>> of PD, so maybe it is already this way), the comunication
>> between the GUI
>> >>> and the rest of PD should be kept simple, fast and modulated,
>> working
>> >> with
>> >>> the leanest possible API. I also think this is a good approach
>> >> considering
>> >>> that most of these toolkits will stop getting support way before PD
>> >> ceases
>> >>> to exist. I have also thought about the possibility of skins,
>> but then
>> >>> loading a bunch of bitmaps would not help in terms of
>> performance...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> At the same time we pick a toolkit and focus on that one first.
>> So we
>> >>> should think of at least two teems, right? One at the GUI end
>> and the
>> >> other
>> >>> at the core PD end...
>> >>>
>> >>> What do you guys think?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>> <hans at at.or.at <mailto:hans at at.or.at>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 01/21/2013 12:54 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> From: Billy Stiltner <billy.stiltner at gmail.com
>> <mailto:billy.stiltner at gmail.com>>
>> >>>>>> To: IOhannes zmölnig <zmoelnig at iem.at <mailto:zmoelnig at iem.at>>
>> >>>>>> Cc: pd-list at iem.at <mailto:pd-list at iem.at>
>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 10:04 PM
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI toolkits and custom GUIs WAS: Integra
>> Live 1.5
>> >>>> released
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> haha , last month i tried to install juce to see about making an
>> >>>>>> alternate graphics front end to my patches. there was some
>> weirdness
>> >>>>>> in the way you compile it then run the introjucer or somethin to
>> >>>>>> update it then after the update something didn't quite work
>> right.
>> >>>>>> then there are all the old projects that use the old
>> steinberg vst sdk
>> >>>>>> which you cant get from steinberg anymore so all that is
>> just awful. i
>> >>>>>> think that there should be a really nice updated version of juce
>> >>>>>> either available now or in the near future. its a tossup
>> between
>> >>>>>> fltk, qt , opengl ,juce, and processing. i just want to be
>> able to
>> >>>>>> add my waveform data filenames to the presets with a
>> fileopen dialog
>> >>>>>> without using an external, string parsing like .scl files
>> that have
>> >>>>>> 100.00 or 3/2, and polyphonic patchcords would be nice.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> What about the -guicmd "cmd..." flag? Could one write a
>> pd-gui.html
>> >>>>> that lives at localhost:1234, and have it talk to pd at its
>> port on
>> >>>> localhost?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Then you could just write the interface with html5 canvas, svg,
>> >>>>> javascript, or whatever.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -Jonathan
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> That sounds feasible to me.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> .hc
>> >>>>
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>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
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