[PD] 1-inlet [list] : bug? WAS: enhance pd-extended with pd-l2ork featues ?

[Julian Brooks]

With the below Ubuntu package all seems better - list has 2 inlets once
more:)

Jb



On 21 January 2013 22:12, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at> wrote:

>
> Also, does it happen if you use the Ubuntu/oneiric package (should work for
> wheezy, you might want to use quantal or raring for sid):
>
>
> https://launchpad.net/~eighthave/+archive/pd-extended/+files/pd-extended_0.43.4%7E20130121-1%7quantal_amd64.deb
>
> .hc
>
> On 01/21/2013 04:37 PM, Julian Brooks wrote:
> > Yip yip - same here:
> >
> > 0.43.4-extended-20130107
> >
> > WARNING: 64-bit builds are still beta, some libraries are known to have
> > serious issues (cyclone, maxlib, moonlib, moocow, pdp, bsaylor, etc.)
> > /usr/lib/pd-extended/tcl/../startup/1.list.pd_linux: can't load startup
> > library'!
> >
> >
> > [list] has only one inlet.
> >
> > Debian Sid/Wheezy 64b.
> >
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Julian
> >
> >
> >
> > On 21 January 2013 21:26, batinste <dwanafite at yahoo.fr> wrote:
> >
> >> Weirder and weirder. Pd-ext still cannot load 1.list.pd_linux. I get
> >>
> >> error: /usr/lib/pd-extended/startup/**1.list.pd_linux: can't load
> startup
> >> library'!
> >>
> >> but :
> >>
> >> ~$ ls /usr/lib/pd-extended/startup/ | grep list
> >> 1.list.pd_linux
> >>
> >>
> >> So i deinstalled the last auto-build of Pd-extended for ubuntu 12.10
> x64 :
> >>
> >> ~$ sudo dpkg --purge pd-extended
> >> (Lecture de la base de données... 303007 fichiers et répertoires déjà
> >> installés.)
> >> Suppression de pd-extended ...
> >> Purge des fichiers de configuration de pd-extended ...
> >> dpkg : avertissement : while removing pd-extended, directory
> >> '/usr/lib/pd-extended/extra' not empty so not removed
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour «
> hicolor-icon-theme
> >> »...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour « bamfdaemon »...
> >> Rebuilding /usr/share/applications/bamf.**index...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour «
> desktop-file-utils
> >> »...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour « gnome-menus »...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour « man-db »...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour « menu »...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour « shared-mime-info
> >> »...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour « ureadahead »...
> >>
> >> in the extra directory are ANN library and the missing earplug_data.txt.
> >> It shouldn't interfere with the rest.
> >>
> >> Then i removed preferences backups i did in my /home/me : .pdextended,
> >> .pdextended~, .pdextended.**thisoneactuallyworks, etc :)
> >>
> >> Then, downloaded Pd-0.43.4-extended-ubuntu-**quantal-amd64.deb from
> >> http://autobuild.puredata.**info/auto-build/latest/<
> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/latest/>and
> >>
> >> ~$ sudo dpkg -i Desktop/Pd-0.43.4-extended-**ubuntu-quantal-amd64.deb
> >> Sélection du paquet pd-extended précédemment désélectionné.
> >> (Lecture de la base de données... 295934 fichiers et répertoires déjà
> >> installés.)
> >> Dépaquetage de pd-extended (à partir de
> .../Pd-0.43.4-extended-ubuntu-**quantal-amd64.deb)
> >> ...
> >> Paramétrage de pd-extended (0.43.4-extended) ...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour « ureadahead »...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour « shared-mime-info
> >> »...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour « menu »...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour « man-db »...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour « bamfdaemon »...
> >> Rebuilding /usr/share/applications/bamf.**index...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour «
> desktop-file-utils
> >> »...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour « gnome-menus »...
> >> Traitement des actions différées (« triggers ») pour «
> hicolor-icon-theme
> >> »...
> >>
> >> and finally
> >> :~$ pd-extended -stderr -verbose
> >> input channels = 0, output channels = 0
> >> Pd-0.43.4 ("extended") compiled 09:20:08 Jan 20 2013
> >> port 5400
> >> TCL_LIBRARY="/usr/lib/pd-**extended/lib/tcl/library"
> >> TK_LIBRARY="/usr/lib/pd-**extended/lib/tk/library"   wish8.5
> >> "/usr/lib/pd-extended/tcl//pd-**gui.tcl" 5400
> >> priority 6 scheduling enabled.
> >> Waiting for connection request...
> >> priority 8 scheduling enabled.
> >> /usr/lib/pd-extended/bin/pd-**watchdog
> >> ... connected
> >> opened 0 MIDI input device(s) and 0 MIDI output device(s).
> >> input channels = 0, output channels = 0
> >> Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/50-user.**conf", line 9: reading
> >> configurations from ~/.fonts.conf is deprecated.
> >> verbose(5): Using /usr/lib/pd-extended/startup as startup.
> >> verbose(4): Loading /usr/lib/pd-extended/startup/**0.libdir.pd_linux
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**libdir/libdir.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**libdir/libdir.pd_linux and succeeded
> >> verbose(3): libdir loader 1.9
> >> verbose(3):     compiled on Jan 20 2013 at 09:23:51
> >> verbose(3):     compiled against Pd version 0.43.4.extended
> >> verbose(4): Loading /usr/lib/pd-extended/startup/**1.list.pd_linux
> >> tried ./`Lp.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/`**Lp.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/`**Lp.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/`**Lp.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried ./`Lp.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/`**Lp.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/`**Lp.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/`**Lp.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried ./`Lp/`Lp.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/`**Lp/`Lp.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/`**Lp/`Lp.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/`**Lp/`Lp.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried ./`Lp/`Lp.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/`**Lp/`Lp.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/`**Lp/`Lp.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/`**Lp/`Lp.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried -meta.pd and failed
> >> error: /usr/lib/pd-extended/startup/**1.list.pd_linux: can't load
> startup
> >> library'!
> >>
> >> verbose(4): Loading extra in /usr/lib/pd-extended/startup/**extra
> >> tried ./extra.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**extra.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**extra.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried ./extra.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**extra.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**extra.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried ./extra/extra.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**extra/extra.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**extra/extra.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/extra.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried ./extra/extra.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**extra/extra.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**extra/extra.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/extra.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried ./extra/extra-meta.pd and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**extra/extra-meta.pd and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**extra/extra-meta.pd and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/extra-meta.pd and succeeded
> >> verbose(3): libdir_loader: added 'extra' to the global objectclass path
> >> verbose(14): Loaded libdir 'extra' from '/usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**
> >> extra'
> >> verbose(4): Loading pdlua in /usr/lib/pd-extended/startup/**pdlua
> >> tried ./pdlua.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/pdlua.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**pdlua.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**pdlua.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**pdlua.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried ./pdlua.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/pdlua.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**pdlua.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**pdlua.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**pdlua.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried ./pdlua/pdlua.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/pdlua/pdlua.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**pdlua/pdlua.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**pdlua/pdlua.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**pdlua/pdlua.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried ./pdlua/pdlua.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/pdlua/pdlua.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**pdlua/pdlua.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**pdlua/pdlua.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**pdlua/pdlua.pd_linux and succeeded
> >> watchdog: signaling pd...
> >> verbose(3): pdlua 0.7.1 (GPL) 2012 Martin Peach, based on
> >> verbose(3): lua 0.6~svn (GPL) 2008 Claude Heiland-Allen <
> >> claudiusmaximus at goto10.org>
> >> verbose(3): pdlua: compiled for pd-0.43 on Jan 20 2013 09:23:51
> >> verbose(4): Loading tclpd in /usr/lib/pd-extended/startup/**tclpd
> >> tried ./tclpd.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/tclpd.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**tclpd.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**tclpd.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**tclpd.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried ./tclpd.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/tclpd.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**tclpd.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**tclpd.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**tclpd.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried ./tclpd/tclpd.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/tclpd/tclpd.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**tclpd/tclpd.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**tclpd/tclpd.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**tclpd/tclpd.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried ./tclpd/tclpd.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/tclpd/tclpd.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**tclpd/tclpd.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**tclpd/tclpd.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**tclpd/tclpd.pd_linux and succeeded
> >> verbose(3): tclpd loader v0.3.0
> >> verbose(3): tclpd: trying to load /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**
> >> tclpd/tclpd.tcl...
> >> verbose(3): tclpd: loaded /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**tclpd/tclpd.tcl
> >> verbose(4): Loading vanilla in /usr/lib/pd-extended/startup/**vanilla
> >> tried ./vanilla.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/vanilla.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**vanilla.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**vanilla.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**vanilla.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried ./vanilla.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/vanilla.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**vanilla.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**vanilla.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**vanilla.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried ./vanilla/vanilla.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/vanilla/vanilla.l_ia64 and
> failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**vanilla/vanilla.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**vanilla/vanilla.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**vanilla/vanilla.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried ./vanilla/vanilla.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/vanilla/vanilla.pd_linux and
> >> failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**vanilla/vanilla.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**vanilla/vanilla.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**vanilla/vanilla.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried ./vanilla/vanilla-meta.pd and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/vanilla/vanilla-meta.pd and
> >> failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**vanilla/vanilla-meta.pd and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**vanilla/vanilla-meta.pd and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**vanilla/vanilla-meta.pd and succeeded
> >> verbose(3): libdir_loader: added 'vanilla' to the global objectclass
> path
> >> verbose(14): Loaded libdir 'vanilla' from '/usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**
> >> vanilla'
> >>
> >> If i try to open a new patch and create and [list], it has only one
> inlet.
> >>
> >> then i restart pd-ext, and If i try to open a new patch and [import
> list],
> >> i get
> >>
> >> tried /home/batinste/list.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/list.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**vanilla/list.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/pd-externals/**list.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/local/lib/pd-externals/**list.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**list.l_ia64 and failed
> >> tried /home/batinste/list.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**extra/list.pd_linux and failed
> >> tried /usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/**vanilla/list.pd_linux and succeeded
> >> verbose(3): [import] loaded library: 'list'
> >>
> >> Then i try to create a [list], it has 2 inlets.
> >>
> >> my .pdextended :
> >>
> >> audioapi: 2
> >> noaudioin: True
> >> noaudioout: True
> >> audiobuf: 50
> >> rate: 44100
> >> callback: 0
> >> blocksize: 64
> >> nomidiin: True
> >> nomidiout: True
> >> npath: 0
> >> standardpath: 1
> >> verbose: 1
> >> nloadlib: 0
> >> defeatrt: 0
> >> flags:
> >>
> >>
> >> my /usr/lib/pd-extended/default.**pdextended :
> >>
> >> audioapi: 1
> >> standardpath: 1
> >> verbose: 0
> >> defeatrt: 0
> >> flags:
> >> loadlib1: Gem
> >> loadlib2: cyclone
> >> loadlib3: zexy
> >> loadlib4: creb
> >> loadlib5: cxc
> >> loadlib6: iemlib
> >> loadlib7: list-abs
> >> loadlib8: mapping
> >> loadlib9: markex
> >> loadlib10: maxlib
> >> loadlib11: mjlib
> >> loadlib12: motex
> >> loadlib13: oscx
> >> loadlib14: pddp
> >> loadlib15: pdogg
> >> loadlib16: pmpd
> >> loadlib17: sigpack
> >> loadlib18: smlib
> >> loadlib19: unauthorized
> >> loadlib20: pan
> >> loadlib21: hcs
> >> loadlib22: jmmmp
> >> loadlib23: ext13
> >> loadlib24: ggee
> >> loadlib25: iem_anything
> >> loadlib26: ekext
> >> loadlib27: flatgui
> >> loadlib28: chaos
> >> loadlib29: pdp
> >> nloadlib: 29
> >> path1: /var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-**conf.d/dirs/TrueType
> >> npath: 1
> >>
> >>
> >> if it's a bug, i'll happily file it.
> >>
> >> On 21/01/2013 02:41, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 5:52 PM, batinste wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  On 20/01/2013 21:02, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 01/20/2013 06:36 AM, batinste wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I was intrigued by this [$@< bug (mainly because i didn't knew about
> >>>>>> this $@
> >>>>>> thingy), so i decided to give it a try. Attached is my test patch.
> It
> >>>>>> crashes
> >>>>>> on my ubuntu 12.10 64bits, Pd-l2ork version 20130111 compiled
> 13:18:07
> >>>>>> Jan 11
> >>>>>> 2013, way before reaching 1000 args. I launch it in my terminal
> with :
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ~$ pd-l2ork test-dollar-at.pd
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> All i have to do is continuously move my mouse over the patch while
> >>>>>> it's
> >>>>>> running, and it will crash around 100 args. You can also try to play
> >>>>>> with the
> >>>>>> vslider, it will crash. OR (curiously), it won't crash when moving
> the
> >>>>>> mouse,
> >>>>>> but going in and out of edit mode or saving will make it crash...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On a side note, look at the patch cord going out of the vslider : it
> >>>>>> looks
> >>>>>> weird to me, like attached a few pixels under the vslider, not
> directly
> >>>>>> connected to it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> That's worth a bug report!  It worked for me: I left it alone for a
> >>>>> while and
> >>>>> it went to 24817, then once I clicked in the patch, it crashed
> >>>>> instantly.
> >>>>> Batinste, could you file a bug report and include your patch?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  ok !
> >>>>
> >>>>> Ok now, the fun part :
> >>>>>> When i open this patch with pd-extended (Pd-0.43.4
> >>>>>> ("extended-20130118")
> >>>>>> compiled 09:30:52 Jan 18 2013), [list] only has one inlet (it should
> >>>>>> have 2,
> >>>>>> given that it's supposed to behave like [list append]) and when i
> want
> >>>>>> to see
> >>>>>> [list]'s help file, pd-ext opens bang's help file... When i open the
> >>>>>> same
> >>>>>> patch with pd-l2ork, the lists do have 2 inlets. Oh, and pd-extended
> >>>>>> happened
> >>>>>> to display lists with their 2 inlets, but i can't reproduce this
> >>>>>> reliably. I
> >>>>>> tried to open the patch with -noprefs (to ensure that i didn't have
> a
> >>>>>> forgotten [list] abstraction somewhere) same issue.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Am i cursed or something ?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> I've never seen the [list] with the single inlet bug.  Can you send
> me
> >>>>> a patch
> >>>>> to reproduce it?  I think that would happen if you run 'pd-extended
> >>>>> -nostartup' which will prevent the list lib from being automatically
> >>>>> loaded at
> >>>>> startup.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -noprefs won't disable loading from ~/pd-externals or
> >>>>> /usr/local/lib/pd-externals since that's hard coded in Pd.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> .hc
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  oops my bad, i did not see this : error:
> /usr/lib/pd-extended/startup/
> >>>> **1.list.pd_linux: can't load startup library'!
> >>>> It was with the patch i attached earlier.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Where you able to fix that error? That file is definitely included in
> the
> >>> packages that I've tried.
> >>>
> >>> .hc
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  On 20/01/2013 07:35, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> From: Ivica Ico Bukvic <ico at vt.edu>
> >>>>>>>> To: 'Jonathan Wilkes' <jancsika at yahoo.com>; 'Hans-Christoph
> Steiner'
> >>>>>>>> <hans at at.or.at>
> >>>>>>>> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 11:21 PM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [PD] enhance pd-extended with pd-l2ork featues ?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>     > Why not simply use pd-l2ork?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>    I do, but possible reasons why someone might not use Pd-l2ork:
> >>>>>>>>>    * no binary for windows
> >>>>>>>>>    * no binary for OSX
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On the flip-side pd-l2ork provides a solid, bug-free environment
> on
> >>>>>>>> Linux
> >>>>>>>> and looks a lot more contemporary than the aged default tk
> >>>>>>>> iteration. In
> >>>>>>>> other words, it is a targeted Linux distribution of pd (something
> >>>>>>>> that can
> >>>>>>>> be easily lost in a cross-platform effort with inadequate
> developer
> >>>>>>>> support,
> >>>>>>>> as I am sure Hans can attest to). At this point I would go as far
> as
> >>>>>>>> challenge you to find something that does not work or exhibits a
> >>>>>>>> buggy
> >>>>>>>> behavior
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> $@ in msg box probably still crashes when incoming args > 1000
> (same
> >>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>> pd-extended)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Jonathan
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> >>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> >>>>>>> http://lists.puredata.info/**listinfo/pd-list<
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ______________________________**_________________
> >> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/**
> >> listinfo/pd-list <http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list>
> >>
> >
>
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