[PD] GUI toolkits and custom GUIs WAS: Integra Live 1.5 released
Jonathan Wilkes
jancsika at yahoo.com
Tue Jan 22 01:27:41 CET 2013
Messages to the gui _should_ be pd messages (FUDI), no?
-Jonathan
----- Original Message -----
> From: Martin Peach <martin.peach at sympatico.ca>
> To: Leandro da Mota Damasceno <lemota at gmail.com>
> Cc: PD List <pd-list at iem.at>
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI toolkits and custom GUIs WAS: Integra Live 1.5 released
>
> Wouldn't it be a good idea to settle on a graphics metalanguage rather
> than translating tcl code to qt or whatever?
>
> Martin
>
>
> On 2013-01-21 15:11, Leandro da Mota Damasceno wrote:
>> so let's see...Who´s working with what so far?
>>
>> I´d love to join a team and start learning how to code with one of the
>> toolkits.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at
>> <mailto:hans at at.or.at>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> So all those interested in a new GUI should start working on it,
>> there is lots
>> of interest. Then we can incrementally change pd itself as there is
>> a need.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On 01/21/2013 02:48 PM, Leandro da Mota Damasceno wrote:
>> > You're right. Damn, you're always right :)
>> >
>> > So, just to know where we are right now... What have been
> tested/done
>> > regarding the GUIs toolkits so far? I think we should at least
>> have this
>> > set and go on from there...
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>> <hans at at.or.at <mailto:hans at at.or.at>>wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I think this is the general idea of what everyone wants to
>> support. But
>> >> the
>> >> way is actually takes shape is going to depend on whoever
>> actually does the
>> >> work. A great example of this is the PDDP (Pure Data
> Documentation
>> >> Project).
>> >> We had lots of design meetings and then no one implemented
> the
>> ideas. Then
>> >> Jonathan picked up from that what was interesting to him and
>> made the whole
>> >> meta help system, the search plugin, etc.
>> >>
>> >> The lesson there for me is that big design discussions only
> work
>> if the
>> >> people
>> >> involved them are willing to do the work to implement them.
>> Instead, I
>> >> think
>> >> for a more decentralized community like this one, we only
> should
>> nail down
>> >> the
>> >> key parts that everyone must use, then leave other decisions
> to
>> those who
>> >> are
>> >> implementing those parts.
>> >>
>> >> So that means I'm happy to help people write there own
> GUI, and I'll
>> >> definitely be involved in the work of making it possible with
> Pd.
>> >>
>> >> .hc
>> >>
>> >> On 01/21/2013 01:05 PM, Leandro da Mota Damasceno wrote:
>> >>> That sounded like a Lego approach. :)
>> >>>
>> >>> So the way I see it the GUI development should be in the
> most
>> seemless
>> >> way
>> >>> for the user, right?
>> >>>
>> >>> And we also have the problem between people who prefer a
>> simple, leaner
>> >> GUI
>> >>> approach (the classic PD, for instance) against people
> who
>> prefer a more
>> >>> sofisticated, and sexy GUI. And I believe both groups
> would
>> also like
>> >> some
>> >>> more knobs and stuff...
>> >>>
>> >>> so basically, we should at least have two options of gui:
> simple
>> >> (classic)
>> >>> or sophisticated (sexy). But it would be cool to make it
> open
>> enough to
>> >>> anyone develop their own or come up with new and
> customized
>> ones. that
>> >>> would make PD way cooler than Max/MSP or anything else.
> So for
>> that to
>> >> work
>> >>> (and now I must admit I really don't know the
> architecture
>> behind this
>> >> part
>> >>> of PD, so maybe it is already this way), the comunication
>> between the GUI
>> >>> and the rest of PD should be kept simple, fast and
> modulated,
>> working
>> >> with
>> >>> the leanest possible API. I also think this is a good
> approach
>> >> considering
>> >>> that most of these toolkits will stop getting support way
> before PD
>> >> ceases
>> >>> to exist. I have also thought about the possibility of
> skins,
>> but then
>> >>> loading a bunch of bitmaps would not help in terms of
>> performance...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> At the same time we pick a toolkit and focus on that one
> first.
>> So we
>> >>> should think of at least two teems, right? One at the GUI
> end
>> and the
>> >> other
>> >>> at the core PD end...
>> >>>
>> >>> What do you guys think?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>> <hans at at.or.at <mailto:hans at at.or.at>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 01/21/2013 12:54 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> From: Billy Stiltner
> <billy.stiltner at gmail.com
>> <mailto:billy.stiltner at gmail.com>>
>> >>>>>> To: IOhannes zmölnig <zmoelnig at iem.at
> <mailto:zmoelnig at iem.at>>
>> >>>>>> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> <mailto:pd-list at iem.at>
>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 10:04 PM
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI toolkits and custom
> GUIs WAS: Integra
>> Live 1.5
>> >>>> released
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> haha , last month i tried to install juce to
> see about making an
>> >>>>>> alternate graphics front end to my patches.
> there was some
>> weirdness
>> >>>>>> in the way you compile it then run the
> introjucer or somethin to
>> >>>>>> update it then after the update something
> didn't quite work
>> right.
>> >>>>>> then there are all the old projects that use
> the old
>> steinberg vst sdk
>> >>>>>> which you cant get from steinberg anymore so
> all that is
>> just awful. i
>> >>>>>> think that there should be a really nice
> updated version of juce
>> >>>>>> either available now or in the near future.
> its a tossup
>> between
>> >>>>>> fltk, qt , opengl ,juce, and processing. i
> just want to be
>> able to
>> >>>>>> add my waveform data filenames to the presets
> with a
>> fileopen dialog
>> >>>>>> without using an external, string parsing
> like .scl files
>> that have
>> >>>>>> 100.00 or 3/2, and polyphonic patchcords
> would be nice.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> What about the -guicmd "cmd..." flag?
> Could one write a
>> pd-gui.html
>> >>>>> that lives at localhost:1234, and have it talk to
> pd at its
>> port on
>> >>>> localhost?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Then you could just write the interface with
> html5 canvas, svg,
>> >>>>> javascript, or whatever.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -Jonathan
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> That sounds feasible to me.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> .hc
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
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