[PD] GUI toolkits and custom GUIs WAS: Integra Live 1.5 released

Jonathan Wilkes jancsika at yahoo.com
Tue Jan 22 01:27:41 CET 2013


Messages to the gui _should_ be pd messages (FUDI), no?

-Jonathan




----- Original Message -----
> From: Martin Peach <martin.peach at sympatico.ca>
> To: Leandro da Mota Damasceno <lemota at gmail.com>
> Cc: PD List <pd-list at iem.at>
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI toolkits and custom GUIs WAS: Integra Live 1.5 released
> 
> Wouldn't it be a good idea to settle on a graphics metalanguage rather 
> than translating tcl code to qt or whatever?
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> On 2013-01-21 15:11, Leandro da Mota Damasceno wrote:
>>  so let's see...Who´s working with what so far?
>> 
>>    I´d love to join a team and start learning how to code with one of the
>>  toolkits.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at
>>  <mailto:hans at at.or.at>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>      So all those interested in a new GUI should start working on it,
>>      there is lots
>>      of interest.  Then we can incrementally change pd itself as there is
>>      a need.
>> 
>>      .hc
>> 
>>      On 01/21/2013 02:48 PM, Leandro da Mota Damasceno wrote:
>>       > You're right. Damn, you're always right :)
>>       >
>>       > So, just to know where we are right now... What have been 
> tested/done
>>       > regarding the GUIs toolkits so far? I think we should at least
>>      have this
>>       > set and go on from there...
>>       >
>>       >
>>       > On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>>      <hans at at.or.at <mailto:hans at at.or.at>>wrote:
>>       >
>>       >>
>>       >> I think this is the general idea of what everyone wants to
>>      support.  But
>>       >> the
>>       >> way is actually takes shape is going to depend on whoever
>>      actually does the
>>       >> work. A great example of this is the PDDP (Pure Data 
> Documentation
>>       >> Project).
>>       >> We had lots of design meetings and then no one implemented 
> the
>>      ideas.  Then
>>       >> Jonathan picked up from that what was interesting to him and
>>      made the whole
>>       >> meta help system, the search plugin, etc.
>>       >>
>>       >> The lesson there for me is that big design discussions only 
> work
>>      if the
>>       >> people
>>       >> involved them are willing to do the work to implement them.
>>        Instead, I
>>       >> think
>>       >> for a more decentralized community like this one, we only 
> should
>>      nail down
>>       >> the
>>       >> key parts that everyone must use, then leave other decisions 
> to
>>      those who
>>       >> are
>>       >> implementing those parts.
>>       >>
>>       >> So that means I'm happy to help people write there own 
> GUI, and I'll
>>       >> definitely be involved in the work of making it possible with 
> Pd.
>>       >>
>>       >> .hc
>>       >>
>>       >> On 01/21/2013 01:05 PM, Leandro da Mota Damasceno wrote:
>>       >>> That sounded like a Lego approach. :)
>>       >>>
>>       >>> So the way I see it the GUI development should be in the 
> most
>>      seemless
>>       >> way
>>       >>> for the user, right?
>>       >>>
>>       >>> And we also have the problem between people who prefer a
>>      simple, leaner
>>       >> GUI
>>       >>> approach (the classic PD, for instance) against people 
> who
>>      prefer a more
>>       >>> sofisticated, and sexy GUI. And I believe both groups 
> would
>>      also like
>>       >> some
>>       >>> more knobs and stuff...
>>       >>>
>>       >>> so basically, we should at least have two options of gui: 
> simple
>>       >> (classic)
>>       >>> or sophisticated (sexy). But it would be cool to make it 
> open
>>      enough to
>>       >>> anyone develop their own or come up with new and 
> customized
>>      ones. that
>>       >>> would make PD way cooler than Max/MSP or anything else. 
> So for
>>      that to
>>       >> work
>>       >>> (and now I must admit I really don't know the 
> architecture
>>      behind this
>>       >> part
>>       >>> of PD, so maybe it is already this way), the comunication
>>      between the GUI
>>       >>> and the rest of PD should be kept simple, fast and 
> modulated,
>>      working
>>       >> with
>>       >>> the leanest possible API. I also think this is a good 
> approach
>>       >> considering
>>       >>> that most of these toolkits will stop getting support way 
> before PD
>>       >> ceases
>>       >>> to exist. I have also thought about the possibility of 
> skins,
>>      but then
>>       >>> loading a bunch of bitmaps would not help in terms of
>>      performance...
>>       >>>
>>       >>>
>>       >>> At the same time we pick a toolkit and focus on that one 
> first.
>>      So we
>>       >>> should think of at least two teems, right? One at the GUI 
> end
>>      and the
>>       >> other
>>       >>> at the core PD end...
>>       >>>
>>       >>> What do you guys think?
>>       >>>
>>       >>>
>>       >>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>>      <hans at at.or.at <mailto:hans at at.or.at>
>>       >>> wrote:
>>       >>>
>>       >>>> On 01/21/2013 12:54 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>>       >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>       >>>>>
>>       >>>>>> From: Billy Stiltner 
> <billy.stiltner at gmail.com
>>      <mailto:billy.stiltner at gmail.com>>
>>       >>>>>> To: IOhannes zmölnig <zmoelnig at iem.at 
> <mailto:zmoelnig at iem.at>>
>>       >>>>>> Cc: pd-list at iem.at 
> <mailto:pd-list at iem.at>
>>       >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 10:04 PM
>>       >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI toolkits and custom 
> GUIs WAS: Integra
>>      Live 1.5
>>       >>>> released
>>       >>>>>>
>>       >>>>>> haha , last month i tried to install juce to 
> see about making an
>>       >>>>>> alternate graphics front end to my patches. 
> there  was some
>>      weirdness
>>       >>>>>> in the way you compile it then run the 
> introjucer or somethin to
>>       >>>>>> update it then after the update something 
> didn't quite work
>>      right.
>>       >>>>>> then there are all the old projects that use 
> the old
>>      steinberg vst sdk
>>       >>>>>> which you cant get from steinberg anymore so 
> all that is
>>      just awful. i
>>       >>>>>> think that there should be a really nice 
> updated version of juce
>>       >>>>>> either available now or in the near future.  
> its a tossup
>>      between
>>       >>>>>> fltk, qt , opengl ,juce, and processing.  i 
> just want to be
>>      able to
>>       >>>>>> add my waveform data filenames to the presets 
> with a
>>      fileopen dialog
>>       >>>>>> without using an external, string parsing 
> like .scl files
>>      that have
>>       >>>>>> 100.00 or 3/2, and polyphonic patchcords 
> would be nice.
>>       >>>>>
>>       >>>>> What about the -guicmd "cmd..." flag?  
> Could one write a
>>      pd-gui.html
>>       >>>>> that lives at localhost:1234, and have it talk to 
> pd at its
>>      port on
>>       >>>> localhost?
>>       >>>>>
>>       >>>>> Then you could just write the interface with 
> html5 canvas, svg,
>>       >>>>> javascript, or whatever.
>>       >>>>>
>>       >>>>> -Jonathan
>>       >>>>
>>       >>>>
>>       >>>> That sounds feasible to me.
>>       >>>>
>>       >>>> .hc
>>       >>>>
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>>       >>
>>       >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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