[PD] RE : package system for Pd WAS: Plugin auto install feature to Pure data

Tue Feb 5 19:33:11 CET 2013

I think really the key is to find someone who is going to start working on
this, then help them figure out the issues as they request it.  I think its
counterproductive if we set up too many conditions of starting if none of us
are going to work on it :-)  Then they can decide Tcl or something else,
client or server first, or whatever else.

Who wants to try the first sketch?  We have a package format to start with,
its something, but it'll surely need to be changed to support all the ideas:
http://puredata.info/docs/developer/LibraryTemplate

.hc

On 02/05/2013 12:48 PM, colet.patrice wrote:
> I dont think the client is the first thing to head on, because I guess it will depend on server architecture. Anyway tcl seems to most suited for that, there would no need to add some more junk into pd bin folder...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Envoyé depuis mon appareil mobile Samsung
> 
> -------- Message d'origine --------
> De : Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at> 
> Date : 05/02/2013  16:20  (GMT+00:00) 
> A : pd-list at iem.at 
> Objet : [PD] package system for Pd WAS: Plugin auto install feature to Pure
>  	data 
>  
> 
> While I agree with all this, we don't need a full design spec to start coding.
> I think the next step is for someone to put together a rough prototype to
> start with, rather than get bogged down in the details of something that has
> been talked about for years, but never implemented :-)
> 
> Then it can be implemented bit by bit as people have time and interest.  So
> the first question to ask before starting it:  which language?  Is Tcl
> workable for people?
> 
> .hc
> 
> On 02/05/2013 10:36 AM, Charles Z Henry wrote:
>> I think that it's a great idea--but the devil's in the details.  I think
>> you need to have a good guiding vision to help you make the decisions about
>> the implementation--a top-down design
>>
>> On the client side, you have to have information about what packages are
>> installed, where they're installed, what flavor of pd they are installed
>> for, version information, more?
>> Dependencies:  within Pd, you could be distributing patches that require
>> some externals--I think it's best for a Pd package system to only reference
>> dependencies that include other abstractions or externals, not system
>> libraries.
>> Maintenance:  a system like this needs to be *easy* to maintain---only a
>> few binary targets can be supported.  The rest will need to compile from
>> source.
>>
>> I would start out like this.... make a list and argue point-by-point until
>> you have a clear plan.
>> Not that I'm much one to *complete* my projects... but I have a lot of
>> insight on failing :)
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:10 AM, colet.patrice <colet.patrice at free.fr> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, that's a quite interesting subject I've been thinking about for pdx
>>> since a time, thank you for the contribution... like you said it might be
>>> complicated to resolve all dependences required by an external, so I think
>>> that adding other dependences like php sql or json would make it even more
>>> complicated... Why not just using the native client interpreted langage,
>>> TCL-TK? With the help of a command line like wget included with the tcl
>>> script and a bunch of pkg files that should be enough, wouldn't it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Message d'origine --------
>>> De : fls at rendera.com.br
>>> Date : 03/02/2013 20:22 (GMT+00:00)
>>> A : pd-list at iem.at
>>> Objet : [PD] Plugin auto install feature to Pure data
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi list
>>>
>>> I would like to write before but unfortunately I couldn't. Some weeks ago
>>> people started to talk about the development of some auto install
>>> mechanism to Pure Data, like the apt-get. It is an amazing idea. I
>>> researched and developed some thing like it to my master degree and I
>>> would like to contrib with my 3 cents.
>>>
>>> I studied the plugin structure of Netbeans, Eclipse, Fire Fox, deb and rpm
>>> and my contribution is about it. Sorry if I am a little bit prolix.
>>>
>>> The first thing is to create a plugin package. A a single file to group a
>>> lot of files. It can be a zip package, tar, gzip or anything that already
>>> has some C open source API to pack / unpack. This way we can upload /
>>> download a single file and extract it localy. I will call it the package.
>>>
>>> Inside the package is necessary to have a package descriptor. It can be a
>>> XML file, CSV, txt, JSON or any kind of structured file to describe the
>>> content of the package. This file should have the information about the
>>> plugin like the author, version, website, license, OS, dependencies,
>>> compatibility with PD "flavors" (vanilla, extended, Lork ....),
>>> pre-installation script, post-installation script, uninstall script, key
>>> words, ...
>>>
>>> Pre and post installation script are used to create SQL tables, files or
>>> other things. Maybe it is not useful in PD. Uninstall script should clean
>>> the mess if you want to remove a plugin. Dependencies is a complex problem
>>> because it should care about libraries and circular dependencies. Maybe it
>>> is the hardest problem to solve.
>>>
>>> These two things will define the PD plugin: The package file and the
>>> plugin descriptor inside the package. The package structure should be
>>> defined as a standard. So we should agree, for example, about the name of
>>> the descriptor, the folder where the plugin will be and the name of the
>>> package file. Probably a package file can be the name of the
>>> external.version.something.pd_pkg.
>>>
>>> In PD we should have a list of installed plugins. It can be a directory
>>> with all the plugin descriptors. The user might be able to install new
>>> plugins manually. It means a local file in my machine that I choose. PD
>>> will open the package, copy the content to the correct folders and copy
>>> the descriptor the the correct folder. The uninstall option will do the
>>> oposite, delete the plugin descriptor and delete the plugin files.
>>>
>>> To update from the web, a plugin repository need to be defined. The client
>>> should have a list of repositories address. (It is good because different
>>> flavors can have their own plugin repositories and the users can choose
>>> which one they want to use.)
>>>
>>> The plugin server can be implemented with a HTTP server. It will publish
>>> the list of available plugins on the server. This list can be the list of
>>> package descriptors in a tar / zip file. Locally, PD will keep these
>>> lists, one for each server, and it will be used to look for new plugins.
>>> Add a new server means add the server to the repositories list and
>>> download the plugin list of the new server.
>>>
>>> Since PD has a list of local installed plugins, if you want to check for
>>> updates PD compares the servers plugin lists with your local list. Easy
>>> task. Different versions should can be shown and the user would be able to
>>> choose what to update. These descriptors can be useful also to search for
>>> plugins by author, version, key words, versions, ...
>>>
>>> Update a plugin means to create a list of update, download the packages to
>>> a temp directory and install them locally.
>>>
>>> Just to step foward, the server can have a web interface with some PHP
>>> programming, for instance, that automatically update a package, extract
>>> the descriptor, put it in the correct folder and put the plugins in the
>>> correct folder. Just to be easier to maintenance.
>>>
>>> Another tool can help developers to pack. Since I did a new plugin I can
>>> select the folder, fill a form with the meta-data and the tool will create
>>> the package automatically.
>>>
>>> That's it. Sorry if I wrote too much.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>> f schiavoni
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> 